New Binocular Questions (1 Viewer)

[SIGDMER]

Purchased recently my first binoculars (Vortex Viper HD 8x42) and I really am enjoying them. Looking across fields at wildlife (deer, turkey, etc.) and birds around the house. I like them so much I thought I would try a 12x50 Viper HD, expecting a BIG jump in magnification, bringing distant objects in close and clear. Things are magnified but not dramatically, contrast is not as good as the 8x40 and view not as bright in a variety of light conditions. The same distant objects (200 – 400 yards) don't seem quite as sharp as with the 8x40. Of course FOV is less but I expected that. Seem to be able to hold steady enough also. Is this to be expected as a function of the higher 12x magnification vs. 8x?

Questions:

1. At what magnification beyond 8x does one see a “dramatic” increase in magnification? 15x, 18x?

2. Should the 8x40 and 12x50 Viper HD have the same image quality?

3. Does one need to make the jump to a Razor UHD level binoculars for
clear crisp highly magnified images?

Thank you.

 

[BKoh]

For magnification changes, personally my experience (via my binos and spotting scope) is:

25-33% visible
50% obvious
100+% dramatic

This is "at a glance" rather than careful study or looking at rulers/fence posts etc.

For optical quality, higher magnification is more demanding of design, manufacturing and assembly. Something that works well at 8x may not be so good when scaled up to 12x, and could be quite poor at 16x.

Also, at higher powers handshake is a bigger problem. Unless you mount the bino on a tripod, higher power may not give a better image. Many people prefer 8x to 10x for this reason, and few can handhold 12x steady for a meaningful period of time. You may be surprised at how much better your 12x50 becomes when mounted on a tripod.

For 8x42 vs 12x50, they are different binoculars (different objectives, different prisms, different eyepieces), sharing the Viper name does not mean much. 8x42 and 10x42 would be related yes, 10x50 and 12x50 yes. Not 8x42 and 12x50.

 

[Troubador]

Purchased recently my first binoculars (Vortex Viper HD 8x42) and I really am enjoying them. Looking across fields at wildlife (deer, turkey, etc.) and birds around the house. I like them so much I thought I would try a 12x50 Viper HD, expecting a BIG jump in magnification, bringing distant objects in close and clear. Things are magnified but not dramatically, contrast is not as good as the 8x40 and view not as bright in a variety of light conditions. The same distant objects (200 – 400 yards) don't seem quite as sharp as with the 8x40. Of course FOV is less but I expected that. Seem to be able to hold steady enough also. Is this to be expected as a function of the higher 12x magnification vs. 8x?

Questions:

1. At what magnification beyond 8x does one see a “dramatic” increase in magnification? 15x, 18x?

2. Should the 8x40 and 12x50 Viper HD have the same image quality?

3. Does one need to make the jump to a Razor UHD level binoculars for
clear crisp highly magnified images?

Thank you.

"Dramatic" is a personal perception so what I think is dramatic may be different from your perception. Years ago I obtained a Conquest HD 15x56 and thought that was indeed dramatically more powerful but I also found it impractical to use simply hand-held as it was impossible to keep the bino steady even on a calm day with no wind.

I am sure Vortex would like their 12x bino to have as good an image quality as the 8x but as BKoh points out, what works well at 8x may not work so well at 12x and a budget to develop bespoke optics for all magnifications is not always available.

Stepping up to more expensive models will usually bring an optical improvement but beware that as you spend more money the improvements get smaller and the price to get them increases, just the same as with other products such as hi-fi equipment.

Lee

 

[SIGDMER]

My thanks to BKoh and Troubador for their well written and useful insight. Much appreciated.

Any recommendations for and experience with 15x or 18x binoculars that provide similar image quality to my Viper HD 8x42?
Need a pair with smaller IPD (ideally a minimum of 55-58mm). Am I looking for Abbe-Koenig based binoculars due to increase in tube size required for the larger objective lens at this magnification?

Thank you.

 

[Dennis Mau]

My thanks to BKoh and Troubador for their well written and useful insight. Much appreciated.

Any recommendations for and experience with 15x or 18x binoculars that provide similar image quality to my Viper HD 8x42?
Need a pair with smaller IPD (ideally a minimum of 55-58mm). Am I looking for Abbe-Koenig based binoculars due to increase in tube size required for the larger objective lens at this magnification?

Thank you.

These would be better image quality than your Viper HD 8x42 in a 15x56. The Cabela's Euro Instinct HD 15x56. They are not AK prisms, but the SP prism works superbly in these. They are the same as the Meopta B1 Meostar HD 15x56 and IMO are the equal of the Swarovski SLC 15x56. When you move up in magnification you want to move up in quality also because it is harder to make a good higher magnification binocular because you see the aberrations easier and things like CA increase. They are on sale now at Cabella's for $1299.99. The Zeiss Conquest HD 15x56 are quite good also, although they have a tad more CA than the Meostar's and there is a LNIB for sale on Astromart for $1350. That is almost a $450 savings.

https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/cabelas-instinct-euro-hd-binoculars

Zeiss Conquest HD 15x56 - LNIB Excellent | Astromart

Astromart.com is the leading portal for astronomy news, classified ads and telescope reviews. Place your astronomy ads, read the latest news articles and check out the current reviews of newest telescopes and equipment.

astromart.com

Review: Meopta Meostar 15X56 HD Binocular - Rokslide

Meopta Meostar 15X56 HD Binocular by Matt Cashell, Rokslide Staff Most Rokslide readers know I have been using various optics from Meopta Sport Optics over the last decade. The Meopta Meostar HD 10X42 is my reference standard Western hunting binocular with its top-level optical performance...

www.rokslide.com

Zeiss Conquest HD 15x56 Review - Rokslide

Les Welch takes the Zeiss Conquest HD 15x56 Binoculars on multiple hunts and provides an in-depth review after a season of use.

www.rokslide.com

Zeiss 15x56 Conquest HD Review

scopeviews.co.uk

 

[Binastro]

Canon 10x42L IS.

Regards,
B.

 

[SIGDMER]

These would be better image quality than your Viper HD 8x42 in a 15x56. The Cabela's Euro Instinct HD 15x56. They are not AK prisms, but the SP prism works superbly in these. They are the same as the Meopta B1 Meostar HD 15x56 and IMO are the equal of the Swarovski SLC 15x56. When you move up in magnification you want to move up in quality also because it is harder to make a good higher magnification binocular because you see the aberrations easier and things like CA increase. They are on sale now at Cabella's for $1299.99. The Zeiss Conquest HD 15x56 are quite good also, although they have a tad more CA than the Meostar's and there is a LNIB for sale on Astromart for $1350. That is almost a $450 savings.

https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/cabelas-instinct-euro-hd-binoculars

Zeiss Conquest HD 15x56 - LNIB Excellent | Astromart

Astromart.com is the leading portal for astronomy news, classified ads and telescope reviews. Place your astronomy ads, read the latest news articles and check out the current reviews of newest telescopes and equipment.

astromart.com

Review: Meopta Meostar 15X56 HD Binocular - Rokslide

Meopta Meostar 15X56 HD Binocular by Matt Cashell, Rokslide Staff Most Rokslide readers know I have been using various optics from Meopta Sport Optics over the last decade. The Meopta Meostar HD 10X42 is my reference standard Western hunting binocular with its top-level optical performance...

www.rokslide.com

Zeiss Conquest HD 15x56 Review - Rokslide

Les Welch takes the Zeiss Conquest HD 15x56 Binoculars on multiple hunts and provides an in-depth review after a season of use.

www.rokslide.com

Zeiss 15x56 Conquest HD Review

scopeviews.co.uk

Thank you once again Dennis for your research and information.
Questions:
1. Assuming I could find similar pricing ($1,300 price range) is the Vortex Razor UHD 15x56 you have/commented on in the past superior to the Meopta B1 MeostarHD?
2. Do you know if the Cabela's version is the B1 or B1 "Plus" with "Flouride HD lens elements" ? Does it matter, B1 or B1 Plus?

 

[Maljunulo]

I have owned a Fujinon 16X70 for quite a few years.

I would not recommend it for general use, and it would be far down any list of optics I wanted to acquire, if I were just starting out.

Do not be seduced by magnification.

 

[Richard D]

I've not tried the Meostar, but have tried the Swarovski 15x56, the Zeiss Conquest 15x56 and the Vortex 18x56 UHD. I haven't tested them side by side but my thoughts are as follows:

None of them would be a bad buy if you want a long pair.

I don't own the Vortex, but was generally impressed - just about hand-holdable for short periods and with bright clear optics and very good resolution - as with all big binoculars much better on a tripod. The extra maginification over the 15x isn't dramatic, but it is noticeable. Seem very well made, and the owner as a glasses wearer welcomed the surprisingly good eye-relief. Only real negative is CA on areas of hard contrast - it's not terrible, but is noticeable. You do get that extra bit of magnification though.

Zeiss Conquest 15x56 I've only looked through briefly. Optically very good, although again it has visible CA. Not quite as well balanced in the hand as the other two but not bad, and the eyecups aren't as good. Good value in that it comes with a tripod adapter. Certainly worthy of consideration.

Swarovski SLC 15x56 - the one I now own. Bright, sharp a joy to use. I couldn't say resolution was dramatically better than the other two, but it is near enough CA free. It is a bit dearer, and the tripod adapter is extra. I found it the easiest to handhold, but for long observation periods or real distance again it is much better on a tripod.

Note - all of these are heavy on the neck - after an hour the SLCS get uncomfortable, and a couple of hours is pretty much my limit if carried round the neck. The extra mass does help compensate for the increased magnification - these won't give you a jittery view like 10x25s can, but obviously they will fatigue your arms, and some people struggle more than others with steadiness. Compared with 10s I found handheld they don't give you that much of an advantage for really distant birds, but the view of medium distance birds is great - obviously tripod mounted they're excellent. Field of view is surprisingly good for all three (the Zeiss have a tad more on paper, but useable FoV is very similar due to edge drop-off) but don't expect any to be great for following birds in flight.

I do a lot of birding over open countryside - marshes, gravel pits etc. where higher power bins are at their most useful. Consider where you do your birding!

I don't regret buying the SLCs, and give them a fair bit of use, but I wouldn't want to only have a pair of high power bins. For me the cost of the SLCs over the other two is worth it, but the other two are good options.

 

[Binocollector]

Do not be seduced by magnification.

Very true. I started buying higher mags (mainly for astro use in the beginning) and went down in magnification the more the collection grew. The only higher magnification bino I use regularly is my Canon 18x50IS. Apart from that I prefer 6x-7x magnification -- maximum 8x (rarely 10x). Just so much more relaxing to use. Even for astro use I prefer the lower magnifications for the wider FoV. Most of my nature observation is done either close range at the bird feeder in the garden or at distances of up to around 300m. 7x magnification is enough for that. For closer looks the Canon 18x50IS can't be beat (except by the 20x60S from Zeiss).

 

[tenex]

I thought I would try a 12x50 Viper HD... contrast is not as good as the 8x40 and view not as bright in a variety of light conditions. The same distant objects (200 – 400 yards) don't seem quite as sharp as with the 8x40... Is this to be expected as a function of the higher 12x magnification vs. 8x?

Just to be clear: no, it is not. It's just the mediocre quality of Viper models, more obvious at 12x than at 8x. (You'll surely notice similar differences if you compare the 8x42 itself to better ones, so be warned!) Other 12-15x models mentioned above will do much better. And do be seduced by magnification, if it suits you. In wide-open areas I often carry the 15x SLC myself and would have to say it's my favorite binocular ever.

 

[SIGDMER]

Thanks to all for the education! It would seem others have been down this same higher magnification path before and I appreciate your insight.

Based on your input, my first inclination is to further evaluate my choice of the Viper HD 8x42 as my primary binoculars. I believe 8x42 is best for me however I can envision that a higher quality view is available. I really like the ergonomics of the Viper and Vortex has outstanding service and a great warranty. Did not pursue the higher priced Razor HD 8x42 because reviews didn’t place it significantly above the Viper HD. Viper HD really does get a lot of positive reviews. Razor UHD 8x42 price is more than I care to spend. NOT only interested in Vortex binoculars.

Am going to investigate further the less than or equal to $1,000 8x42 market in search of better imaging than Viper HD 8x42. Mostly just curious about/want image improvement but not overly disappointed with the Viper HD 8x42.

A lot of great information available on this forum, thanks again for your contributions!

 

[Dennis Mau]

Thank you once again Dennis for your research and information.
Questions:
1. Assuming I could find similar pricing ($1,300 price range) is the Vortex Razor UHD 15x56 you have/commented on in the past superior to the Meopta B1 MeostarHD?
2. Do you know if the Cabela's version is the B1 or B1 "Plus" with "Flouride HD lens elements" ? Does it matter, B1 or B1 Plus?

I think the Vortex Razor UHD 15 x56 is slightly superior to the Meostar B1 HD 15x56, but it generally runs about $2K, and I think it would be difficult to find one for $1300. The Meostar is a better value IMO. The Cabela's version is the B1, not the Plus. The only difference in the Plus I believe is some ergonomics and styling changes. So the Cabela's Euro HD 15x56 is a bargain. You are getting a binocular that is very close to the Swarovski SLC HD 15x56 for a lot less money.

 

[Trinovid]

You may be fine sticking with the Viper HD for your 8x42, since you already own and like them, and adding one of the higher magnification models cited by other members here.

 

[Rg548]

Do not be seduced by magnification.

Wise words

 

[Rg548]

You may well be able to use a 10x effectively if the handling works for you. I generally prefer 8x as a rule.
But my Meostars are heavy for a 10x42, some folk dislike that, however they are the easiest 10's I've ever handled, and the extra weight plays well towards stability. I can also handle Habicht 10x well due to the porro shape, but they are light weight.... works well for me, and my massive hands.
As always, you gotta try em..... or we'd all have the same bins!!
Enjoy your search.

 

[SIGDMER]

I think the Vortex Razor UHD 15 x56 is slightly superior to the Meostar B1 HD 15x56, but it generally runs about $2K, and I think it would be difficult to find one for $1300. The Meostar is a better value IMO. The Cabela's version is the B1, not the Plus. The only difference in the Plus I believe is some ergonomics and styling changes. So the Cabela's Euro HD 15x56 is a bargain. You are getting a binocular that is very close to the Swarovski SLC HD 15x56 for a lot less money.

Dennis,
Have been thinking long and hard about this. Before purchasing higher magnification I think I should probably upgrade my Viper HD 8x42. Is a Zeiss Conquest HD 8x42 still the best <$1,000 option for significantly improved image quality over the Viper? I don’t wear glasses, is the “short eye cup” still an issue, to be resolved by Zeiss sending different ones?
Any other current contenders to be considered? Read your comparison post and many comments about the Conquest HD, seems to have a strong following. Sorry to be a moving target.
Thank you again for your assistance.

 

[Rg548]

Dennis,
Have been thinking long and hard about this. Before purchasing higher magnification I think I should probably upgrade my Viper HD 8x42. Is a Zeiss Conquest HD 8x42 still the best <$1,000 option for significantly improved image quality over the Viper? I don’t wear glasses, is the “short eye cup” still an issue, to be resolved by Zeiss sending different ones?
Any other current contenders to be considered? Read your comparison post and many comments about the Conquest HD, seems to have a strong following. Sorry to be a moving target.
Thank you again for your assistance.

I think Zeiss Conquest is probably the best sub £1000 bino, but don't discount Opticron, or Nikon. Don't overlook the 8x32 Conquest, said to be the best of the bunch, and in reality, still very bright and useable.
Best bang for buck as you don't wear glasses are Habicht 8x30 if they work for you.... astonishing optical quality.
Have a good check around. It's an expensive game, and whilst you will get lots of recommendations, everyone is different.
It's your money, and your eyes.
Good luck, enjoy

 

[Trinovid]

Any other current contenders to be considered?

Absolutely no reason to eliminate any contenders without first trying them yourself. Leica gets left out of many conversations of this sort as almost a default position, and yet there are reasons many of us have chosen them.
I'd highly suggest that you trust your own hands-on opinion than those of any internet coach, though their help may be a helpful assist in bringing other somewhat highly regarded, but lesser known possibilities such as Meopta and Opticron to attention.
That said, I'm very happy with my Ultravids and Trinovids.

 

[albie...]

Best bang for buck as you don't wear glasses are Habicht 8x30 if they work for you.... astonishing optical quality.

Good luck, enjoy

I have never had the pleasure to try a Habicht 8x30 porro and wish I could . I would like to say that I feel that the Nikon E2 8x30 has to be the best bang for your buck . For approximately $600ca ($455us) you can buy a brand new 8x30E2 . The Habicht is approximately $1200ca , twice as much as the E2 .