Minidisc recorders: what are my options? (1 Viewer)

[HouseFinch]

Due to the conversation I've had in the "Microphone Q's" thread, I've now considered the possibility of buying a minidisc recorder for use in the field. What is the best option for a tight budget? I've thought about looking on Ebay, but I want to know what the best types are first.

One issue that concerns me is that minidiscs can only be used once, or at least that's what I've gathered from reading about them: are there no minidiscs which can be rewritten, rather like a CD-RW? If not, are minidiscs very expensive, and where can they be purchased?

 

[postcardcv]

One issue that concerns me is that minidiscs can only be used once, or at least that's what I've gathered from reading about them: are there no minidiscs which can be rewritten, rather like a CD-RW? If not, are minidiscs very expensive, and where can they be purchased?

Minidiscs can be used and reused as many times as you like - it's a great format, delivering good sound quality that doesn't degrade no matter how much a disc is used.

I changed my MD recorder last year to buy a HI-MD recorder, this is great as I can get 13 hours of recording on a standard disc or 45 hours on a HI-MD disc. Best advice on buying is to shop around, I ended up getting mine from a local retailer who was about 50% cheaper than the best online price I could find. I've had three MD recorders, all have been Sony and I've been happy with all of them, so would high recommend a Sony MD recorder.

A lot (if not all) of the current MD recorders can be connected to a PC allowing you to move files between the recorder and your PC (look for ones listed with MD-net). This is very useful as it is much easier to edit recordings on a PC than on the actual recorder. You can also use the MD recorder as an external drive and can back up files onto MD.

 

[HouseFinch]

Minidiscs can be used and reused as many times as you like - it's a great format, delivering good sound quality that doesn't degrade no matter how much a disc is used.

I changed my MD recorder last year to buy a HI-MD recorder, this is great as I can get 13 hours of recording on a standard disc or 45 hours on a HI-MD disc. Best advice on buying is to shop around, I ended up getting mine from a local retailer who was about 50% cheaper than the best online price I could find. I've had three MD recorders, all have been Sony and I've been happy with all of them, so would high recommend a Sony MD recorder.

A lot (if not all) of the current MD recorders can be connected to a PC allowing you to move files between the recorder and your PC (look for ones listed with MD-net). This is very useful as it is much easier to edit recordings on a PC than on the actual recorder. You can also use the MD recorder as an external drive and can back up files onto MD.

All of that is great to hear: I was under the impression that minidiscs are like CD-Rs, which can only be used once. How are the MDs erased, just with the recorder itself?

Does anyone recommend a specific model of Sony Minidisc recorder? Just looking at Amazon.com right now, and the choices are overwhelming. 8-P

 

[postcardcv]

All of that is great to hear: I was under the impression that minidiscs are like CD-Rs, which can only be used once. How are the MDs erased, just with the recorder itself?

indeed you can simply delete either sinlge tracks or a complete disc using the recorder.

I use the MZ-NH900, which may not be a current model (it's amazing how quickly they seem to change) and am very happy with it. To be honest I think that they are all fairly similar, probably just a matter of deciding if you want a built in radio...

Just had a quick look on Amazon, the MZ-NH600 for $85 (new form a seller) looks like a good buy. It's a decent recorder (though not one of the newest models) and at that price won't break the bank.

 

[HouseFinch]

indeed you can simply delete either sinlge tracks or a complete disc using the recorder.

I use the MZ-NH900, which may not be a current model (it's amazing how quickly they seem to change) and am very happy with it. To be honest I think that they are all fairly similar, probably just a matter of deciding if you want a built in radio...

Just had a quick look on Amazon, the MZ-NH600 for $85 (new form a seller) looks like a good buy. It's a decent recorder (though not one of the newest models) and at that price won't break the bank.

The MZ-NH600 doesn't seem to have a microphone input(I looked at 'Technical Data')I'll have to look around and be sure that the recorder I look at does have one. I might end up getting an older model, but that doesn't bother me so long as I can record the birds.

 

[Dave B Smith]

I have the MZ N810. Its a pretty good unit thought about 3 years old now. It has external mic / speaker inputs/outputs. I just bought a Radio Shack Speaker (see recent thread on this from T. Allwood) as the units need a little amplification for field playback.

 

[ermine]

Only HI-MD units allow you to digitally download to the PC via USB so you really want to go with one of those. I boaught a NH700 new, which is the lowest one with a mic input, and bought another one used on ebay for redundancy.

You can record uncompressed for over an hour with the 1G discs and for 8 hours with the higher compression. The HiMD mic preamps seem to be low-noise designs, which wasn't the case for many of the the older generations of MD.

The ergonomics stink for field recording - to get into manual record level mode you have to futz about with the menu structure, which is hard in the cold with gloves or in low light. I usually do this in the car, set to record pause, record 1sec and pause again, then the unit is ready to go in manual record level. If you don't record the 1 sec it will drop out of record-pause mode after 5 minutes in a misguided attempt to save battery power and you have to go through the horrible menu structure again.

for uncompressed field recording on a budget you can't really beat HiMD.

 

[HouseFinch]

Only HI-MD units allow you to digitally download to the PC via USB so you really want to go with one of those. I boaught a NH700 new, which is the lowest one with a mic input, and bought another one used on ebay for redundancy.

You can record uncompressed for over an hour with the 1G discs and for 8 hours with the higher compression. The HiMD mic preamps seem to be low-noise designs, which wasn't the case for many of the the older generations of MD.

The ergonomics stink for field recording - to get into manual record level mode you have to futz about with the menu structure, which is hard in the cold with gloves or in low light. I usually do this in the car, set to record pause, record 1sec and pause again, then the unit is ready to go in manual record level. If you don't record the 1 sec it will drop out of record-pause mode after 5 minutes in a misguided attempt to save battery power and you have to go through the horrible menu structure again.

for uncompressed field recording on a budget you can't really beat HiMD.

I'm looking at two HiMD minidisc recorders at the moment, this one: Sony MZ-RH10 and this one: Sony MZ-NH900

I know Postcardcv said the MZ-NH900 is a good one, though I'm not sure about the MZ-RH10, I'm just going by if it's a newer product and has a mic input.

One thing that concerns me, is that some reviewers say that you cannot transfer your own recordings to a computer, to be burned onto a CD, for copyright issues: is there a way around this? I would love to be able to make CDs of my bird sound recordings.

 

[ermine]

Ignore what the reviewers say. They are wrong/out of date. With my NH700, I download using USB and Sonicstage 3.4 digitally. Sonicstage is one of the ugliest pieces of software I have ever seen and the user interface stinks. But it will d/l your MD tracks and convert them to WAV for you, which you can then edit with Audacity or whatever.

HiMD uses a sampling rate of 44.1kHz at 2x16 bits which is exactly what you need for CD so you can make a CD which has exactly the same data, bit for bit, as you recorded on the HiMD (assuming you record PCM uncompressed that is). In practice you'll need to equalise gain and trim bits, but the rub is you do NOT lose signal quality in the transfer process - again provided you record PCM uncompressed on the HiMD.

With Sonicstage 3.4 I believe you can even re-upload your tracks to Hi-MD and re-download them, though I see no reason to do this, as CD-R blanks are cheaper for storing your final results.

The reviews you saw are probably from more than 6 months ago, when Sony used to have all sorts of stupid restrictions about transferring from HiMD - you could only transfer tracks you recorded from the analog inputs, and you could only transfer this once etc etc in a daft attempt to kowtow to copyright rules. All this rubbish is gone - you can now download digitally even from digital recordings using the optical input to the deck which used to be a no-no

To wit -

To the surprise of many in the community, Sonicstage 3.4 has arrived with features that truly make this a worthy upgrade for Hi-MD users by allowing unencumbered uploading of analog and now digital (optical, USB) recordings: e.g. a user can transfer tracks to Hi-MD formatted disc, remove tracks from library, and fully upload back onto any computer without DRM woes OR record audio using optical in and upload to Sonicstage with the ability to convert to WAV (PCM).

read more about this here

Hi-MD is the answer for low-cost high-quality field recording, and indeed any field recording where you will be away from mains power/computer downloading as the reusable blanks are cheaper compared to CF cards. the nearest competing technology is something like the Edirol R-1 CF recorder (inbuilt mics, nice record level knob, no phantom power) or the
m-audio microtrack (no inbuilt mics, ugly up/down rec level control, but with phantom power for really high-quality mics). The main things wrong with HiMD is the really horrible record level setting procedure, and the lack of 48v phantom power. The phantom power supply of my field recording rig weighs more and is bigger than the Hi-MD recorder!

For the microphones you're considering the lack of 48V phantom power isn't an issue and you could go up to mics of the quality of Sennheiser ME66/K6 series before it becomes an issue.

 

[griffin]

Ignore what the reviewers say. They are wrong/out of date. With my NH700, I download using USB and Sonicstage 3.4 digitally.

See this thread :

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=52761

I think this member was having problems transfering Audio that she had recorded. Not sure if MZ-N700 series are same as NH-700 series ? I don't think so ?

I use an old MZ-N710 and just assumed I could not use Sonic Stage to upload files I have recorded in the field so use headphone output. Didn't even install Sonic Stage based on the reviews advice I was given.

I do have a MZ-NH900 though so may switch ( I have been saving it till I get my new mic system !!! ) if it works as well as you say.

Linz

 

[ermine]

See this thread :

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=52761

I think this member was having problems transfering Audio that she had recorded. Not sure if MZ-N700 series are same as NH-700 series ? I don't think so ?

What they need to know is whether the unit is a Hi-MD unit or not. NetMD units also connect via the USB port but only allow you to send data TO the MD which isn't any use for the field recordist

you can find your MD here if you don't know the capabilities. I can't find the OP's NZ-MZ10. There is a Sony MZ-N10 which is a NetMD recorder, which is not a HiMD model and therefore they will not be able to d/l digitally through the USB port.

If you are buying a MD for field recording, then only consider HiMD. The only way of transferring field recordings from previous MD recorders is to re-record the analogue aut of the headphone socket - basically raise volume to 3/4 of full scale and use a 3.5mm stereo minijack to minijack to the line in of your soundcard and record with the PC and something like Audacity. Done competently this can give perfectly serviceable results, but since the MD recording is digital this involves a small extra needless stage of loss of signal quality due to Sony's stupid digital rights restrictions.

HiMD recorders are the only MD recorders capable of recording uncompressed audio which is recommended for bird recordings to avoid artefacts from the compression technology according to Cornell University's Lab of Ornithology .

The capability to download, and the uncompressed recording capability are the reasons why I moved to HiMD form my old Kenwood MD. I have always been able to d/l from the HiMD using Sonicstage over the past couple of years, but before you could only download once (the stupid DRM would mark the original so you couldn't d/l again) and the software was flakey to say the least. Now it is just ugly, but reasonably reliable. It is still inadvisable to edit a HiMD in the field before downloading. I did this once and lost the recording, but I stopped that and haven't had a problem since.

So Housefinch should fear not - as long as you get a HiMD recorder you will be able to digitally download your recording via USB at CD samplerate and bit depth using sonicstage. Use 3.4 or later if available - do a fresh d/l rather than use the CD which comes in the box which is usually a couple of versions behind.

Owners of non-HiMDs don't have that d/l capability and probably never will. Likewise a HiMD will NOT transfer digitally a recording made on a non-HiMD recorder, although it will play it through the headphone socket, due to Sony's DRM stupidity. But I can forgive them that - enough sense has prevailed that HiMD has now been liberated from all this daftness. HiMDs will download their own field recordings even if the recording is made on a standard MD blank formatted in the Hi-MD recorder, but such recordings won't play in non-HiMD equipment.

 

[griffin]

Very comprehensive Ermine, cheers. Looks like I was right advising them to use the Headphone output like I have to on the 710. I am inspired to get going with the Mz-NH900 I bought in May - it is still in the box !

Linz

 

[HouseFinch]

So Housefinch should fear not - as long as you get a HiMD recorder you will be able to digitally download your recording via USB at CD samplerate and bit depth using sonicstage. Use 3.4 or later if available - do a fresh d/l rather than use the CD which comes in the box which is usually a couple of versions behind.

Ah, that clears everything up, no worries now. |=)| I'll be putting $$ aside for a HiMD recorder. Only thing is that I hope the recordings I make will have less hiss than my laptop's soundcard gives me. Either way, being able to record bird sounds digitally in the field is something I've wanted to do for years, so that should make the recorder pay for itself.

 

[ermine]

recordings I make will have less hiss than my laptop's soundcard gives me.

The HiMD mic preamplifiers are actaullly rather good (the Sony line seem to use a common mic preamp design) and actually better than the M-Audio, according to this

For ambience and recording in quiet places, recordists might be pleased to learn they can get much more gain and significantly less noise with a lowly HiMD recorder with condenser mics powered with a portable phantom supply like the Roll PB224. Here's a test I did running very low noise Rode NT1-A mics through a MT, Sony NH900 HiMD and a Sound Devices 722 with all units at full gain to reveal the warts.

you can read the test and find the link to the audio here

With a HiMD recorder your microphone self-noise is likely to be by far the greatest source of hiss, rathaer than the HiMD. With a laptop soundcard this is not necessarily the case It will see you right all the way up to a Sennheiser ME66/K6 combo.

If the hiss of your ATR55 is too much, one low-ish cost mic you might want to try in the field if mono is OK for you is the Sennheiser MKE300 shotgun which is designed for video cameras. It has a reasonably low self-noise, and is rolled off below 300Hz which means wind noise and handling noise is much reduced. Specs are
here

 

[HouseFinch]

Wow, I was impressed by the audio file of comparisons, to say the least! It is MUCH quieter than my laptop soundcard's 'hissy fits' :'D(An example sound file is posted in 'Microphone Q's', near the bottom of the thread).

I greatly anticipate my next digital upgrade.^^ Being able to not only watch, but record the birds I see will be a dream come true. |:d| A prime example will be in the summer down by a small bridge in my area, where there is always a colony of various species of swallows, and I can see and hear them up close.

 

[tony_p]

Recording Nature

Hi,

I've just posted this to another forum but wondered what advice you guys in here could give me.

Hi,

I am currently using a Sharp Net MD mindisc recorder to record the various sounds of nature. However, I understand that Net MD and indeed possibly MD could be on the way out for this type of activity. I am in a bit of a panic as if my current recorder blows up, I am stuck. Alongside this, when back from a day out, I retrieve my recordings by playing the MD in a mindisc stereo (Sony Hi-Fi) and then copy to cassette tape. So a further problem could soon be apparent when the Stereo Hi-Fi packs in.

What advice can anyone give me or what alternatives are out there or are ensuing?

Cheers

Tony :h?:
[email protected]

 

[griffin]

Hi,

I've just posted this to another forum but wondered what advice you guys in here could give me.

Hi,

I am currently using a Sharp Net MD mindisc recorder to record the various sounds of nature. However, I understand that Net MD and indeed possibly MD could be on the way out for this type of activity. I am in a bit of a panic as if my current recorder blows up, I am stuck. Alongside this, when back from a day out, I retrieve my recordings by playing the MD in a mindisc stereo (Sony Hi-Fi) and then copy to cassette tape. So a further problem could soon be apparent when the Stereo Hi-Fi packs in.

What advice can anyone give me or what alternatives are out there or are ensuing?

Cheers

Tony :h?:
[email protected]

You could use a "flash" or digital recorder as described by Lachlustre in this section. Or, god forbid, a good ole' fashioned tape recorder ! I don't think MD will be scrapped outright, but they are probably slightly obseleted/threatened by the current Mp3 iPod situation. We have to remember that MD came out in the early 90's and as I remember it flopped big time. It was the "download" culture that resurrected it in the late 90's but this is now the domain of Mp3 players. Maybe they (Mp3's) will become better for us sound recordists in the future, if not already ?

Linz

Linz

 

[ermine]

Tony,

I am puzzled why anyone with a computer would use cassette these days. Get the free program

audacity for your particular computer platform

To transfer your MD recordings, get a 3.5mm stereo jack to jack lead. Connect one end to the MD recorder headphone output and set the MD volume control to about 75% of full scale. Connect the other end your computer sound card line input (not the mic in). Adjust record levels (on a PC) with the sound mixer - in the record panel select line in. Set Audacity to 44.1kHz stereo 16 bits. Copy your MDs, trim, and the resulting wavs will be in the right file format to burn to an audio CD with your favourite CD creating app. You will get much better sound quality than copying to cassette, and CD players will be around in some form for a long time to come.

If you go that way the longevity of your MD gear isn't an issue. It only has to last between you recording and you transferring to CD format. When and if it breaks down, get whatever is the right field recorder for your budget at the time - the technology will only improve, as long as you avoid Ipods and ther ilk. If you want an easier and more accurate transfer process get a HiMD and transfer digitally via the USB but remember this will not transfer your old MD recordings digitally, only ones you make with the new machine.

 

[tony_p]

You could use a "flash" or digital recorder as described by Lachlustre in this section. Or, god forbid, a good ole' fashioned tape recorder ! I don't think MD will be scrapped outright, but they are probably slightly obseleted/threatened by the current Mp3 iPod situation. We have to remember that MD came out in the early 90's and as I remember it flopped big time. It was the "download" culture that resurrected it in the late 90's but this is now the domain of Mp3 players. Maybe they (Mp3's) will become better for us sound recordists in the future, if not already ?

Linz

Linz

Cheers Linz,

If say, MP3's are better, would I be able to download those to CD/DVD for listening pleasure on my Hi-Fi?

Also, where can I find this Lachlustre post.

Thanks

Tony :hi:

 

[tony_p]

Tony,

I am puzzled why anyone with a computer would use cassette these days. Get the free program

audacity for your particular computer platform

To transfer your MD recordings, get a 3.5mm stereo jack to jack lead. Connect one end to the MD recorder headphone output and set the MD volume control to about 75% of full scale. Connect the other end your computer sound card line input (not the mic in). Adjust record levels (on a PC) with the sound mixer - in the record panel select line in. Set Audacity to 44.1kHz stereo 16 bits. Copy your MDs, trim, and the resulting wavs will be in the right file format to burn to an audio CD with your favourite CD creating app. You will get much better sound quality than copying to cassette, and CD players will be around in some form for a long time to come.

If you go that way the longevity of your MD gear isn't an issue. It only has to last between you recording and you transferring to CD format. When and if it breaks down, get whatever is the right field recorder for your budget at the time - the technology will only improve, as long as you avoid Ipods and ther ilk. If you want an easier and more accurate transfer process get a HiMD and transfer digitally via the USB but remember this will not transfer your old MD recordings digitally, only ones you make with the new machine.

Hi,

How user-friendly is this Audacity malarkey.

This business with the copying to CD sounds very feasible and probably more useful. I am not very technically minded as you are no doubt aware and would appreciate a few pointers as to how I achieve the results you had previously suggested.

It's good to see that the MD issue is not a problem, but I still wonder what I should use in the field. I wonder what the professional sound recordists use?

Thanks again

Tony