Large gull ID: Ireland, North Coast (1 Viewer)

[martyrynin]

January 13th

Came across this gull in some footage. Appears to be larger than the other Herring, but with an all black bill, so still first-winter?

Very pale all over, no checkered pattern on the greater coverts, different tertial pattern and the moult on the coverts appears to be well under way.

Thanks for taking a look!

 

[martyrynin]

Seems to be a tricky one.

I think it's a first winter Herring that is further along into its first summer moult.
The greater coverts look very worn.

With that said, it gave me the impression of Great Black-backed gull in terms of size, as well as the head shape and bill size, but the plumage is completely wrong.

So large first winter Herring that is further into its moult is my guess.

 

[Evan Atkinson]

It's a pretty standard 1st-winter herring in my book Leif. I don't believe herring gulls can come close to looking like a Greater black backed and there are a whole host of features that do not suggest Greater black backed; is it possible you meant Lesser black backed?

Evan

 

[martyrynin]

It's a pretty standard 1st-winter herring in my book Leif. I don't believe herring gulls can come close to looking like a Greater black backed and there are a whole host of features that do not suggest Greater black backed; is it possible you meant Lesser black backed?

Evan

Nope I meant Great Black-backed

A large Herring gull can be the size of a small Great Black-backed gull. The size variation is largest in GBB I believe.

It was also particularly the shape of the head and the bulbous bill. But I agree Herring, although I'm still trying to learn the range of variations.

 

[Evan Atkinson]

Nope I meant Great Black-backed

A large Herring gull can be the size of a small Great Black-backed gull. The size variation is largest in GBB I believe.

It was also particularly the shape of the head and the bulbous bill. But I agree Herring, although I'm still trying to learn the range of variations.

Interesting, I have seen them be larger than LBBG but not Greater. Bill is not that bulbous, quite typical herring structure. Always thought juv/1st winter GBBG have a noticeably shorter bill thats more rounded at the tip compared to herring.

Evan

 

[lou salomon]

This surely is not a 1c but rather a 2c (3cy) bird and looks to be a Herring Gull, on structure and retarded plumage. Look at the trtials for instance: they have a dark center, large pale crescent with a narrow subterminal band - typical for 2nd generation TT. As for bill colour - eventually you can get such dark bills in 2nd cycles, but it surely is not common. The coverts are all over a mix of 2nd and 3rd generation or/and early and late 2nd gen. ones. Look at primary tips also: even in these little resolution pics one can see the obvious white tips (not so in the nearby 1c HGs). It may be a continental argentatus accounting for size and retarded look.

 

[martyrynin]

I found this first winter that has the same structure, so it's really just the plumage that's different

This surely is not a 1c but rather a 2c (3cy) bird and looks to be a Herring Gull, on structure and retarded plumage. Look at the trtials for instance: they have a dark center, large pale crescent with a narrow subterminal band - typical for 2nd generation TT. As for bill colour - eventually you can get such dark bills in 2nd cycles, but it surely is not common. The coverts are all over a mix of 2nd and 3rd generation or/and early and late 2nd gen. ones. Look at primary tips also: even in these little resolution pics one can see the obvious white tips (not so in the nearby 1c HGs). It may be a continental argentatus accounting for size and retarded look.

Very helpful, thank you.

A nice point relating to white tips on the primaries which I had not noticed.

Is there any particular reason a continental argentatus would be more likely to have a delayed moult? I'm not finding a lot of information about the regional differences in Herring gull.