Kowa TSN-501 or Opticron MM3 50 GA (non ED) + HR3 (1 Viewer)

[misikuru]

Hello! I'm a casual birder and looking into purchasing my first (budget) scope. Currently I go birding with Nikon M7 8x42. I don't have a car, so I'd like a small, lightweight scope. As it would be my first scope, I would not want to spend too much (hopefully ~500 euro, including tripod). I've done some research and I'm torn between Kowa TSN-501 (240 euro) and Opticron MM3 50 GA (non ED) with HR3 13~39x zoom eyepiece (370 euro). Has anyone compared or tried them? Which one would be better in the terms of image quality?

I've seen positive reviews for TSN-501 as a budget travel scope, but I have one concern about it. It has a rather short eye relief (14.0 - 12.5 mm). I wear glasses, so MM3's longer eye relief (20.0 - 16.0 mm) is a plus. But then MM3 + HR3 (810g) is twice as heavy as TSN-501 (400g).

I couldn't find reviews for MM3 50 GA (non ED) with HR3 13~39x zoom. Would it give the image quality as good as TSN-501?

I wish I could try these models before ordering, but sadly there's no shop where I can try them in my region. Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[dwatsonbirder]

The little Kowa 501 is a solid scope, but the eye relief may not be suitable - I struggled when I tried one briefly, a shame as optically it was quite impressive for a standard glass scope. I posted a brief review on here a while ago which may be useful.
If you don't mind used kit, it may be worth trying to find a secondhand Nikon ED50, which offers excellent views with the fixed (non-zoom) eyepieces if you wear glasses, and is small, robust and very lightweight. If you pair it with (e.g.) a Velbon Luxi you have a perfect lightweight set up.
I've not tried that particular Opticron, so I cannot comment on the performance - generally speaking, Opticron seem to offer good value products with decent relief, which as a glasses wearer will be welcome. Certainly the ED version of the MM3/4 are excellent performers.

Hope this helps somewhat.

 

[misikuru]

The little Kowa 501 is a solid scope, but the eye relief may not be suitable - I struggled when I tried one briefly, a shame as optically it was quite impressive for a standard glass scope. I posted a brief review on here a while ago which may be useful.
If you don't mind used kit, it may be worth trying to find a secondhand Nikon ED50, which offers excellent views with the fixed (non-zoom) eyepieces if you wear glasses, and is small, robust and very lightweight. If you pair it with (e.g.) a Velbon Luxi you have a perfect lightweight set up.
I've not tried that particular Opticron, so I cannot comment on the performance - generally speaking, Opticron seem to offer good value products with decent relief, which as a glasses wearer will be welcome. Certainly the ED version of the MM3/4 are excellent performers.

Hope this helps somewhat.

Thank you dwatsonbirder! Yes, I read your review and it helped a lot! Also, thanks for the tripod recommendation. I'll definitely check that out.

I guess what I'm worrying the most is the image quality of the non ED MM3. The fact that it doesn't have any review seems a little bit risky to me. I could order the TSN-501 and pull up the glasses every time, but it would be a hassle. I'm also checking the secondhand market. No luck so far!

Thanks again dwatsonbirder for your input!

 

[misikuru]

If anyone has experience with non ED MM3, any info would be appreciated!

 

[dwatsonbirder]

Did you see this review BTW?

https://www.birdguides.com/reviews/telescopes/opticron-mm3-60-ga-travelscope/

 

[misikuru]

Did you see this review BTW?

https://www.birdguides.com/reviews/telescopes/opticron-mm3-60-ga-travelscope/

Thank you for the link! I wonder if the 50 would give a much darker image than the 60. Also I realised that the HR3 eyepiece isn't waterproof, while the TSN-501 is fully waterproof. I need more time before making a decision!

It seems the Velbon Luxi tripod is not available here, so instead I'm looking at Sirui Traveler X or similar. I'm going to search here and read as many posts as I can before I actually order them! (Ball head or fluid head, leg locks type, etc.)

 

[Hermann]

It seems the Velbon Luxi tripod is not available here, so instead I'm looking at Sirui Traveler X or similar. I'm going to search here and read as many posts as I can before I actually order them! (Ball head or fluid head, leg locks type, etc.)

Once you've decided which scope you want, open a new thread in the Tripods and Heads Forum. Read Tringa's Primer in that forum first. A decent tripod and head are almost as important as the scope itself.

Hermann

 

[fazalmajid]

I can't compare against the non-ED MM3, but I have both the TSN-501 and TSN-502, as well as a MM4 50 ED with SDLv3 eyepiece. The Opticron is clearly better, but I wouldn't consider them to be in the same class at all. The Kowa is ultralight, you can keep it in your backpack and forget it's even there, and there are some compromises associated, but it is suprisingly good for a non-ED scope. The Opticron is much heavier.

I considered the Nikon ED50 but rejected it because of the many reports of people dropping one and the plastic barrel simply snapping.

 

[etudiant]

I can't compare against the non-ED MM3, but I have both the TSN-501 and TSN-502, as well as a MM4 50 ED with SDLv3 eyepiece. The Opticron is clearly better, but I wouldn't consider them to be in the same class at all. The Kowa is ultralight, you can keep it in your backpack and forget it's even there, and there are some compromises associated, but it is suprisingly good for a non-ED scope. The Opticron is much heavier.

I considered the Nikon ED50 but rejected it because of the many reports of people dropping one and the plastic barrel simply snapping.

Imho, the ED50 is adequately robust currently. The well reported disasters you reference appear to be pretty infrequent.
Nikon did upgrade the housing, including adding a metal fitting to allow it to safely screw onto a ballhead or tripod.
Fwiw, my 15+ year ownership experience with ED50s has been flawless.
For the truly concerned, Nikon offered a stay on case with a built in hand grip, which also allowed effective hand held use with the straight version.

 

[misikuru]

Once you've decided which scope you want, open a new thread in the Tripods and Heads Forum. Read Tringa's Primer in that forum first. A decent tripod and head are almost as important as the scope itself.

Hermann

I will, thank you Hermann!

 

[misikuru]

I can't compare against the non-ED MM3, but I have both the TSN-501 and TSN-502, as well as a MM4 50 ED with SDLv3 eyepiece. The Opticron is clearly better, but I wouldn't consider them to be in the same class at all. The Kowa is ultralight, you can keep it in your backpack and forget it's even there, and there are some compromises associated, but it is suprisingly good for a non-ED scope. The Opticron is much heavier.

I considered the Nikon ED50 but rejected it because of the many reports of people dropping one and the plastic barrel simply snapping.

Thank you fazalmajid, it was very helpful.

 

[Gzoladz74]

I have the non ED MM360 with the SDLv3 eyepiece and it performs very well for its size. I have never used the Kowa 501 but I am certainly intrigued by it.

 

[misikuru]

I have the non ED MM360 with the SDLv3 eyepiece and it performs very well for its size. I have never used the Kowa 501 but I am certainly intrigued by it.

Gzoladz74, thank you for your comment! I already ordered and received the Kowa. Sadly it was defective, so I have to return it and get a replacement. (I posted a thread about this issue.) I must add that I was more than satisfied with its size and image quality. As for the non-ED MM3, I wonder if it performs well enough with the budget HR3 eyepiece instead of the SDLv3. If I had a chance to compare them side by side, the choice would have been so much easier.