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hybrid shrike ? in France (1 Viewer)

Woodchat x Southern Grey? Female Woodchat would explain the amount of white on forehead and lores, so presumably the hybrid is a female

Jan
 
Collin said:
Female Masked Shrike. Congrats!
Click to expand...

Isn't a fem Masked Shrike, black behind the eye looks the wrong shape and contrasts with greyer crown and mantle, on Masked (unless I'm wrong which to be honest I might be ;)) this should be a similar shade

There is something about it which does remind of Masked but it doesn't really look right for one to me

Jan
 
It's not a masked shrike for the following reasons:

It has a pale rump
The bill is too thick
The pattern at the back of the head is wrong and the wrong colour, masked doesn't have that full 'mullet' in steel grey.

I'm for a woodchat x red-backed hybrid, the scapular pattern and pale rump are in favour of that, as is the amount of white in front of the eye. Such hybrids often show a steel grey head and grey back - in fact, this bird looks very similar to the male hybrid that was present in the Jura last year, just not so strongly coloured.
 
I really don't get a Masked Shrike vibe from this bird, first of all Masked Shrike isn't so prone to perch on a vantage point with an upright posture like others Lanius. If you look closely, the back is too lightely coloured for MS and the crown is grey while it should be black(ish), bill too stubby for MS as well, no sign of dark lores, white primaries patch rather limited etc...

Edit: Nick beat me to it!
 
Yes, there are some questionable marks, but the shape and structure of the body are OK for MS. Can`t see the whole rump. Here some pics with "partly" white rumps /depends of the angle/:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_tGC5Alctj9I/S-QwEf0wCuI/AAAAAAAAA7c/SSjjRefSV8A/s1600/Masked+Shrike.JPG
http://www.realbirder.com/LesvosBirds/MaskedShrike.jpg
http://www.realbirder.com/LesvosP/MaskedShrike.jpg
According to Collins there is "A certain amount of individual variation in female plumage..."
Didier, if the observer has some data about the song/call /pic 5/ will be helpful.
Actually, I don`t know some hybrid between two species to be so close to third one. If that bird is not MS, then definitely is something related to it: MS x ...
 
BuckeyeAZ said:
I'd say that it does look right for one - apart from the overly-dark mask, e.g.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/87805817@N00/4669911714/
(On top of which, I'm always happy to see a 'hybrid' theory die.)
Click to expand...

I'd usually rather steer clear of hybrid theory (other than the classic Linkin Park album), but shrike hybrids are fairy frequent and I've seem a few discussed on here before. In my opinion the mask is the wrong shape, and I can't find any photos of Masked with such a contrasting mask (ironically probably the least well named of it's family in Europe). Personally not too sure how Southern Grey x Woodchat could be ruled out (though I'd be glad to be told, and I'm not insisting it is one), but once Masked is ruled out, as I believe it has been, we are left with clear Woodchat or Masked influence (on bill structure and range at least more likely the former), and it isn't a pure one of either, so it's a hybrid.

Of course one of the African fiscal shrikes would make it to Europe one day so any apparent odd shrike would be worth a good look :)

Jan
 
When I saw this I was reminded of Woodchat, ...the bill and wing patternation.
Then saw the other photos and began to see "ghosts" of either RBS or SGS. The whole "resembling" a female Masked in an "odd" way.
I'm out on this one, but would greatly favour Woodchat as a parent, and favour hybrid status.
Nick had a good one last Summer! A real beauty!
That caused some headscratching also...;)
 
nickderry said:
It's not a masked shrike for the following reasons:

It has a pale rump
The bill is too thick
The pattern at the back of the head is wrong and the wrong colour, masked doesn't have that full 'mullet' in steel grey.

I'm for a woodchat x red-backed hybrid, the scapular pattern and pale rump are in favour of that, as is the amount of white in front of the eye. Such hybrids often show a steel grey head and grey back - in fact, this bird looks very similar to the male hybrid that was present in the Jura last year, just not so strongly coloured.
Click to expand...

Sorry Nick,

I missed your post (too many Nightjar, Woodcock, Wild Boar and Beer tonight...;))

Yes! What you said! B :)
 
Masked Shrikes are so lightweight and lanky - this bird is a Woodchat in shape. Look at the length of the tail compared to the wings, the size of the head and the heaviness of the bill
 

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Last edited:
Jan-Paul Charteris said:
Personally not too sure how Southern Grey x Woodchat could be ruled out
Click to expand...

Same. Apparently it is by far the least common of the possible combinations of SGS/WS/RBS, but it was my best first guess.

It's clearly not a Masked Shrike for all the reasons Nick, Jane and others have given, but above all because it's just the wrong shape altogether.

Graham
 
Jan-Paul Charteris said:
Of course one of the African fiscal shrikes would make it to Europe one day so any apparent odd shrike would be worth a good look :)

Jan
Click to expand...

Why not, Jan! ;)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/manham/3217309333/

Jane, this bird is slimmer than 90% of WSs and is OK for about 70-80% of the MSs, which I reviewed.
Still I bet on MS or some hybrid involving it. Can`t explain the white forehead and the plumage at all in other cases.
However, SGS is good suggestion as one of the parents.
 

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Sorry, I just don't see that - I see MS looking like one structurally and the mystery shrike looking short tailed and stocky
 
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