House martin nestboxes (1 Viewer)

[ANdy5551]

The front aspect of my house has a gable end with the remains of last years martin nest which either blew or was knocked down by the previous owner. there are some horizontal eaves to the front and rear but the eaves at the front have a porch about 2 metres under the eaves whereas the rear eaves are high and have no porch under.
I have purchased a double house martin nest box from the rspb and was wondering if anyone has any evidence as to whether house martins have ever been found to nest at the rear of anyones house?
The reason I ask is this will be the only place available to me to site the boxes.

 

[Sue Wright]

Hi Andy,

Is there any reason (apart from the porch) that you can't put it where the previous owners had obviously had success with them?

Is the reason you're talking about moving it only for the mess part on top of the porch or is there a reason I'm not quite reading? I personally would opt for the side of the house they chose to nest last time. However, I suppose you could always try a box on the other side as a tester, but I honestly can't answer your question in any other way ~ though if we put up boxes for any other Birds, then it's always a general rule of placing them on the north or east facing sides so they don't become too hot from the sun (on the south) or too wet from the west.

If your reasons are due to the porch becoming messy, then would it be possible to erect a platform between nest and porch which you could clean off at the end of the season?

If I haven't quite got things right Andy, then please do say.

Sue.

 

[ANdy5551]

Reasons

Hello Sue,

Thanks for your reply.

The birds nested on the west facing wall in the v shape gable end eaves.

They came back mid June this year and put only a small platform of mud up before clearing off and nesting elsewhere. That same side of the house also has a horizontal portion of eaves. This horizontal portion however has the porch roof from the front hall directly under it, only 5 feet below. I thought this may drastically reduce the ability of the birds to get to them as they always swoop up very steeply to the nests.
The rear, East facing side, has all horizontal eaves with unrestricted flight path access to them, however in all my life I have never seen a house martin nest at the back of any building.
I am not at all worried about the mess as to have them nest on the house more than makes up for the inconvenience.

Was wondering if anyone knew of any nests to the rear of buildings as it may just have been that I haven't seen them as I don't wander rond peoples back gardens, do you know of any?

 

[Sue Wright]

Hi Andy,

Well, at least I'm aware of exactly what you're saying now, thank you.

Firstly though, could them returning and starting to build have coincided with all the rain - from the west that you had in Yorkshire? If so, then I reckon that's the answer, they realised it was not going to be the place for them due to the weather and pushed off.

Don't worry about the porch Andy, that won't be a problem to them at all. It's amazing just where they will nest at times and if conditions are right, they'll make it in and out alright so I don't see that as a problem. It's good to see your attitude about the porch though, I've heard of cases where some people have even resorted to knocking nests down due to the mess!!! They obviously don't have the love for them that we do, sad to say.

Now to the nesting at the rear of houses part! I've put a lot of thought and watching into that since your posting and I reckon you're right and that perhaps they just don't nest at the rear. I wonder if that's due to them being a somewhat gregarious Bird as well as a safety in numbers thing where they each spend a lot of time together hawking Insects when out of the nests. To answer your final question though Andy - no - I've never seen one nesting at the rear of a house and can only assume that (because of no other replies to you) that no-one else has either.

How about putting it to the test next year with a nest at the back, meanwhile though I'd let them go where they wish to either by helping with a box/boxes or them building a nest themselves. Whichever it is Andy ~ good luck with them next year and let's hope the weather is better for them too. I'll be thinking about all this next year so it would be lovely to hear what they do eventually do, if you don't mind please.

All the best and thanks for putting me in the picture as well as giving me plenty of food for thought. I just hope the Police haven't had any calls from concerned folk wondering why someone's attempting to peer round the back of their houses!!!

Sue.

 

[ANdy5551]

Thanks Sue,

as you may have seen from the pictures I posted I went with putting them at the rear to test a theory.

I will of course be the first to tell all if they take to them next year, with pictures from a respectful distance too, although housemartins are incredibly tolerant of us as they are so used to seeing us around their houses!

The nest building they stopped earlier in June did indeed coincide with the rain, however, it had been a very dry spring up to that point and the late nesting went with the availability of wet mud. There were only these in my street attempting to nest so perhaps as you say with them being colony nesters they went a couple of streets along where the houses are festooned with their nests and also closer to the continued building of new houses providing mud that stays wet due to the shorter distance to the nest site.

I am keeping my fingers crossed for either a late brood this year in the boxes or that they will attract more pairs to my street next spring.

 

[ANdy5551]

Proved myself wrong

Have fpond twom sites where there are several house martin nests at the back of buildings, both within a copule of miles of my house and found completely by accident.

One is at the back of a mini supermarket near the large park in East Hull, three nests right round the back but noticed when one bird swooped low over my car as I was driving passed and went to the rear. Of course I had to then stop and take a look and low and behold, there they were. It strikes me that most of the places they nest tend to be either white or pale in colour, such as the fron aspect of my house. This shop wall was painted white!

Shown below are a few pics of house martin nests on the cliffs at FILEY on the North East coast near Scarborough taken last year, yep you guessed it, white cliffs! Perhaps they gravitate to white buildings through instinct as it resembles their historic natural nest sites.

There is also a nest round the back of a chouse near where I work and again found completely by accident during a house call as part of my work.

Seems fete has heard my question and provided.

I will see if I can get photos of the nests at the bak of the mini supermarket and post when able.

 

[ANdy5551]

Natural nest site

The last of the photos, the nest close up was at head height on the cliff right near the beach and over a small cave entrance. A few seconds after the picture a bird stuck its head out and observed me for a few seconds before turning round, leaving its tail and wing feathers sticking out, how rude!

 

[kibrisbirds]

I had House Martins use my artificial nest-box on a south facing wall for about 15 consecutive years, always raising 2 broods. Yes it gets sun and rain but on my south facing semi-detached it was the only position I could achieve.
However for the first time ever this year they just disappeared shortly after the first egg-shells were seen. No coincidence I think given one of the wettest summers in memory.
Cheers

 

[ANdy5551]

Sorry to hear about the abandoned nest, sounds like they just know when to call it quits.

I dont suppose your boxes were to the rear of your house were they?

They do sometimes nest in August and young have been seen in the nest in October, they may come back!

 

[bitterntwisted]

I'm very confused. How on earth would House Martins know which side of a house is the front and which is the rear?

Graham

 

[Sue Wright]

I had House Martins use my artificial nest-box on a south facing wall for about 15 consecutive years, always raising 2 broods. Yes it gets sun and rain but on my south facing semi-detached it was the only position I could achieve.
However for the first time ever this year they just disappeared shortly after the first egg-shells were seen. No coincidence I think given one of the wettest summers in memory.
Cheers

Hi Colin and a warm, though belated welcome to the Forum.

Such a shame about the Martins, I'm sure you're right with your thoughts. I do hope they'll be back again next year and that they will be successful with their broods. It just goes to show that the 'not on a south or west wall' isn't always the case, though I'd hazard a guess that it's possibly because Martins etc nest higher where there's some protection from the eaves.

All the best,

Sue.

 

[Sue Wright]

I'm very confused. How on earth would House Martins know which side of a house is the front and which is the rear?

Graham

Now come on Graham, you of all people should know how to talk to the animals by now! You always seem to get one though don't you!

Until Andy brought it up I'd never given it much thought, but it certainly seems that way down here and just maybe....it's something they've done for centuries as they like to be closer to each other's nests. Though in all honesty you'd think there would be more Insects out the back - wouldn't you??? Who knows all the answers to the wonders of Nature, Graham, but then - to my mind - we're not meant to!

So, what is your view of it all then? It's all really intriguing me now.

Sue.

 

[bitterntwisted]

So, what is your view of it all then? It's all really intriguing me now.

Sue.

OK, you did ask. A House Martin doesn't even know it's nesting on a house. The concept means nothing to them since, if you'll excuse the pretentious phrase, they inhabit a different phenomenological umwelt to humans. It just sees a suitable nest site, widely available, which is functionally similar for a House Martin to the cliffs/crags/outcrops its ancestors nested on for hundreds of thousands of years.

The only possible reason I can give for seeing more House Martin nests at the front of buildings is observer bias, i.e. you see more fronts of buildings than backs (because paths and roads are at the front) so you see more nests at the front.

I grew up on a rather odd sixties estate where a number of the houses backed onto roads and/or onto footpaths and alleys we loitered on. There was no bias there in the architectural aspects chosen, although they did prefer the highest point under most eaves.

All the best,
Graham

PS - I rather enjoy trying to see habitats through birds' eyes. It helps you see more birds and understand them better. Often artificial structures are topographically and materially similar to natural microhabitats and you can understand why a species is attracted. (e.g. Pied Wagtail, Black Redstart, Peregrine).

I was driving in Wales last month and saw a derelict stone cottage in a gulley with a fern-filled garden, a brook nearby, a few tall oaks and pines and some sheep grazing in an adjacent field, so I pulled up because I knew I'd find a particular species breeding there. Can you guess what?

 

[Sue Wright]

The nest building they stopped earlier in June did indeed coincide with the rain, however, it had been a very dry spring up to that point and the late nesting went with the availability of wet mud.
I am keeping my fingers crossed for either a late brood this year in the boxes or that they will attract more pairs to my street next spring.

Hi Andy,

I'm sure you're right about the rain, sun and mud causing problems as it's been a most unusual spring and summer. Fingers crossed for that late brood and who knows what next year could bring.

Amazing about you finding the 'back of the house' ones, even on the way to town today I was searching to see where each went - no luck though.

As to the house/cliff colouring that doesn't apply to many at all in our village, but I do wonder if they would prefer to choose white if possible, it would also possibly help hide the faeces give-away signs from predators. Just a thought in case your reading Graham - logical though! Thanks for putting the photos on Andy, amazing how they construct them!

Incidentally, I just KNEW you'd be asking Colin that question Andy! Can't wait for his reply now though!o

All the best,

Sue.

 

[Sue Wright]

OK, you did ask. A House Martin doesn't even know it's nesting on a house. The concept means nothing to them since, if you'll excuse the pretentious phrase, they inhabit a different phenomonelogical umwelt to humans. It just sees a suitable nest site, widely available, which is functionally similar for a House Martin to the cliffs/crags/outcrops its ancestors nested on for hundreds of thousands of years.

The only possible reason I can give for seeing more House Martin nests at the front of buildings is observer bias, i.e. you see more fronts of buildings than backs (because paths and roads are at the front) so you see more nests at the front.

I grew up on a rather odd sixties estate where a number of the houses backed onto roads and/or onto footpaths and alleys we loitered on as kids. There was no bias there in the architectural aspects chosen, although they did prefer the highest point under most eaves.

All the best,
Graham

PS - I rather enjoy trying to see habitats through birds' eyes. It helps you see more birds and understand them better. Often artificial structures are topographically and materially similar to natural microhabitats and you can understand why a species is attracted. (e.g. Pied Wagtail, Black Redstart, Peregrine).

I was driving in Wales last month and saw a derelict stone cottage in a gulley with a fern-filled garden, a brook nearby, a few tall oaks and pines and some sheep grazing in an adjacent field, so I pulled up because I knew I'd find a particular species breeding there. Can you guess what?

Yep, that all makes perfect sense to me Graham, thanks for taking the time to tell it as you have, you've even jogged my memory now of a friend in Cheshire who has a H Martin's nest at the back!!! I've even seen that one!!!

Now then to your nest site. Not easy, but trying to think as a Bird...Spotted Fly, Owl (Barn or Little), maybe a Wheatear if we're discounting the house though I think it plays a part, or a Raptor, possibly a Kestrel or Pereguin. The only others I can think of are Dipper, Wag or Kingfisher!

Go on then Graham, surprise me - or not!

All the best,

Sue.

 

[bitterntwisted]

Go on then Graham, surprise me - or not!

It was Redstart. And I was right. Although I can definitely see the logic in Spotted Flycatcher and Little Owl.

 

[Sue Wright]

Not too bad then. I'm not too surprised at a Redstart though. Thanks Graham, I'll be searching further from here on!

Sue

 

[ANdy5551]

Just another thought on why they might prefer to nest at the front, as has been pointed out they dont realise they are nesting on houses but as they originally nested on cliffs, those cliffs only have one aspect to them, there is no rear aspect to a cliff!
Maybe their instinct is to go to that aspect based on the open access to front of a house whereas rear gardens have fences walls trees etc to block their routes?
Also there is no bias towards whether the wall faces north east south or west, near me there are nests facing every direction but obsever bias seeing more to the front due to not being able to see round the back may play a part. I do however see the birds only flying to the nests at the front as none are seen to fly to the rear of the houses down the next street that my back garden overlooks.
And Sue, you must be psychic knowing I would ask that question.:t:

 

[ANdy5551]

At the moment there is a great website where a guy called DAvid Jones has artificial martin boxes covered by a webcam. He providdes a running commentary on progress from within and the webcam is literally from the birds point of view. For me its a must see!
http://www.mybitoftheplanet.com/

 

[kibrisbirds]

Sorry to hear about the abandoned nest, sounds like they just know when to call it quits.

I dont suppose your boxes were to the rear of your house were they?

They do sometimes nest in August and young have been seen in the nest in October, they may come back!

......... side of the house.
I think it was last year they were still feeding in October but the skies seem completely devoid of House Martins now. I hope I'm wrong but I get the gut feeling we'll next see them again in Spring.
Cheers
Colin