Hobby or Merlin - Italy (1 Viewer)

[balex78]

Hello,

this morning I saw a falcon flying above my head. It was approximately the size of a hobby or a merlin. It was not a kestrel because of the jizz, structure and flight. It went ahead and up in the sky in a very slow flight but with very quick wingbeats and the a glide...then quick wingbeats again..

I've see a lot of hobbies and kestrel bu this looked like a little smaller and different in flight...did you ever see a Merlin in flight? I mean, not the hunting flight at ground level but the normal flight high up in the sky (migrating bird?)
Wht could that be in your opinion?

thanks
Alex

 

[KenM]

Alex have you ruled out male Sparrow Hawk...a slow flap-flap then glide kinda flight?

cheers

 

[rosbifs]

sounds that way...

 

[balex78]

no it was not a sparrowhawk...it was compact, the wings were too pointed and long tail...it was a little falcon for sure.
The "flap-flap" was very quick...but the flight was slow...I mean it did very quick wingbeats (it went more up above in the sky then ahead, so it moved ahead very slow) but it passed by slow.

 

[Jan-Paul Charteris]

no it was not a sparrowhawk...it was compact, the wings were too pointed and long tail...it was a little falcon for sure.
The "flap-flap" was very quick...but the flight was slow...I mean it did very quick wingbeats (it went more up above in the sky then ahead, so it moved ahead very slow) but it passed by slow.

Sparrowhawk are more compact than any of the species youve mentioned, have longer tails than any of the species you've mentioned and often often hold their primaries together forming a pointed wingtip. Also the flight style youve described is classic Sparrowhawk

 

[rosbifs]

another stab in dark could be levant - i don't think they're rare on migration in your part of the world albeit that i think they tend to be in groups...

my experience of merlin on migration is that they hug the terrain.

 

[KenM]

no it was not a sparrowhawk...it was compact, the wings were too pointed and long tail...it was a little falcon for sure.
The "flap-flap" was very quick...but the flight was slow...I mean it did very quick wingbeats (it went more up above in the sky then ahead, so it moved ahead very slow) but it passed by slow.

I can recall a sillhoutted Merlin, flying horizontally against a December sunset sky a few years ago..showing ''needle'' sharp wing-tips and a ''long'' tail.

 

[Jan-Paul Charteris]

I can recall a sillhoutted Merlin, flying horizontally against a December sunset sky a few years ago..showing ''needle'' sharp wing-tips and a ''long'' tail.

If it is said to be too compact to be a Sparrowhawk, it doesn't suggest the rakish Merlin though?

 

[KenM]

If it is said to be too compact to be a Sparrowhawk, it doesn't suggest the rakish Merlin though?

The long tail and pointy wings....kinda might ring bells?

 

[Jan-Paul Charteris]

The long tail and pointy wings....kinda might ring bells?

Considering Sparrowhawk often appear to show pointed wingtips, how are you ruling out the more common Sparrowhawk in this instance then? Long tail? Hopefully not. Compact? does the latter sound more like Sparrowhawk or Merlin to you? Flap flap glide flight pattern making relatively slow progress? that ring any bells?

 

[KenM]

The OP feels that it was definitely not an accipter... suggesting enough history and experience of being able to differentiate the geometrical difference between the former and the latter.

This being the case.....(I for one..would give him the benefit of any doubt), particularly as it would appear that he has enough experience of Hobby/Sprawk...but perhaps limited experience of Merlin...Alex might like to comment?

 

[Jan-Paul Charteris]

The OP feels that it was definitely not an accipter... suggesting enough history and experience of being able to differentiate the geometrical difference between the former and the latter.

This being the case.....(I for one..would give him the benefit of any doubt), particularly as it would appear that he has enough experience of Hobby/Sprawk...but perhaps limited experience of Merlin...Alex might like to comment?

True the OP is the only one who saw it, and it'd be interesting to have further comment, but wrong structure for Kestrel (Merlin if anything are closest to Kestrel in structure), considered Hobby or Merlin (both slim rakish species) but too compact for Sparrowhawk (a species which is the most compact mentioned here and also shows all the other features described)?

That's where I'm coming from!

 

[KenM]

It is the ''variability'' of BOP wing geometry..that makes debate so interesting regarding the perceived ''set in stone'' raptor shapes..see attached..Your turn Alex...

 

[balex78]

I can easily rule out an accipiter because of my experience on that. As for jizz, structure, wings It was more like a kestrel/hobby/Merlin kind of falcon. in my experience i've never seen a kestrel flying like this...very quick wingbeats but making slow progress in the sky..and then a little glide.
That narrows it down to Merlin and Hobby. My impression on the field was of a falcon a little smaller than hobby but with pointed wings as a hobby, but a little shorter wings than hobby .

This is a video I found on you tube...the flight was a lot like the one of the Merlin (watch it at the minute 2:37), as desceribed above

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbGO8cbig_c

But maybe also a Hobby can fly like this? Did you have any experience on that?

thanks
Alex

 

[rosbifs]

Realistically i have seen hobby, kestrel, peregrine and sparrowhawk all display these flight characteristics (migration watchpoints i.e. birds on migration). Depends how determined a bird wants to get somewhere with or without the wind etc. as stated earlier never seen a high flying merlin although am sure they could.

Size quoted as between merlin and hobby doesn't really rule out a lot.

i think you will have to make a judgement - only you saw the bird in question. Unidentified raptor....
I think

 

[pianoman]

Is it too late in the year for a migrating juvenile cuckoo?

 

[balex78]

It's not too late but i'm sure it was a raptor.

 

[saluki]

very quick wingbeats but making slow progress in the sky..and then a little glide.

That sounds very much like a Kestrel's territorial display flight.

Cheers
Jonathan

 

[dantheman]

Raptor sp.

(Or Falcon sp, but being less specific keeps everyone happy ).

Merlin (male) can look tiny, but still a bit chunky, Hobby obviously really quite skinny - but getting a handle on jizz afterwards means that probably best to let it go. As others have said, the type of flight described not particularly diagnostic (or even that typical) for the two above.