Goldcrest-Firecrest or what? (1 Viewer)

[Joern Lehmhus]

Odd looking Regulus species:

http://waarneming.nl/foto_details.php?id=254481

 

[KnockerNorton]

hybrid?

 

[Macswede]

Interesting looking bird. Can't think of a better explanation than hybrid.

 

[rob stoff]

never heard of these two hybridising before but as others have said that seems like a very reasonable explanation for this little beauty. Hard to imagine that a pure firecrest could lack a loral line, moustache and white crescent below the eye and the brown in the ear coverts suggests Goldcrest influence.

Rob

 

[Conorbirda2]

Never heard of theses to hybridizing either. Funny looking bird though.

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

They can hybridize, but it is not common.

2nd article here reports such a case:

http://www.nosoiseaux.ch/issue.php?m_id=0&id=12&langu=en&highligh=

however, could it be an aberrant firecrest?

 

[Ghostly Vision]

Is there a race of Firecrest that looks like this?

It doesn't seem to show mixed features - looks just like a Firecrest but without the dark lores/eyestripe.

There is a record from Derbyshire in 2006 of a probable hybrid pair, but the young were not seen properly after they had left the nest.

Sean

 

[PhilW]

I can't see why it isn't a standard Firecrest. Looks as if the white in the photo is over exposed and the feathers on the forehead are blown over partially obscuring the lores. I'm pretty sure I can see a dark loes beneath these feathers.The angle the bird is at means the feathers around the chin & nape of neck are fluffed up / blown over and partially obscuring the wing bar on the median coverts.

 

[Black Wheatear]

It doesn't seem to show mixed features - looks just like a Firecrest but without the dark lores/eyestripe.
Sean

Hi Sean,

Tend to agree with you. A hybrid doesn't appear the case with this individual more like a querk in plumage.

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

It is also on a Dutch forum , and if I translate the Dutch text correctly , the photofgrapher observed this in a bush with a Goldcrest and a Firecrest.

And now he asked what this one is.

there are suggestions of aberrant firecrest also on that forum...

 

[rob stoff]

I can't see why it isn't a standard Firecrest. Looks as if the white in the photo is over exposed and the feathers on the forehead are blown over partially obscuring the lores. I'm pretty sure I can see a dark loes beneath these feathers.The angle the bird is at means the feathers around the chin & nape of neck are fluffed up / blown over and partially obscuring the wing bar on the median coverts.

here's some nice pics of a normal Firecrest:

http://www.blueskybirds.co.uk/firecrest.php

Forehead feathers are tiny, certainly not long enough to 'blow over' the lores and conceal the solid black line there, if they were it would happen frequently. There is also no black eyestripe immediately behind the eye on the mystery bird which a Firecrest should show. Can't buy this is an aberrant Firecrest and there's no reason to believe a hybrid would show a 50:50 split of features. Looking much more like one parent than the other is a common feature of hybrids and some are probably indistinguishable from one parent, unlike this bird which is clearly at odds with the usual appearnce of Firecrest. Of course it will never be possible to know one way or another but as hybrids are known it would be unwise to discount that possibility in such an odd bird that does show some obviously Goldcrest-like facial features (pale lores etc)that have not previously been recorded in a Firecrest.

Rob

 

[Gomphus]

Is there a race of Firecrest that looks like this?

It doesn't seem to show mixed features - looks just like a Firecrest but without the dark lores/eyestripe.

There is a record from Derbyshire in 2006 of a probable hybrid pair, but the young were not seen properly after they had left the nest.

Sean

Sean, there was a male Firecrest and female Goldcrest feeding young at a nest at Carsington Water in Derbyshire in 1996...I am certain they were paired up but cannot prove it conclusively either, I spent hours with them but the young fledged the one day I wasn't there so I never did find out what they looked like as they vanished in to the forest never to be seen again!!

This bird is a tester, I too am not sure whether its an abnormal Firecrest of some sort or a hybrid...maybe favouring the latter a bit at the moment.

Is it just me or are the wing bars a tad dull for a Firecrest, even taking into account the fluffed up feathers over the median covert bar, the greater covert bar looks slightly dull and washed green, not as white and sharp and "squared off looking" as most Firecrest? The whole bird looks a tad washed out a bit too, but is that the exposure on the photo?

I believe it would be unusual for a hybrid to show a 50-50 split of features, hybrids tend to favour one of the parents more so in theory it could be a hybrid favouring Firecrest with the Goldcrest genes causing this slightly abnormal look....

Cheers

 

[RJElse]

The length of the claws looks about right for Firecrest and much shorter than Goldcrest, so that doesn't really get us any closer to deciding just what it is. Perhaps a hybrid might show longer claws, but who knows?

As Rob Stoff has mentioned, it seems to show some Goldcrest features like the pale lores and some buff on the cheek. I would think a hybrid is the most likely answer, especially as the two species have been known to hybridise on a number of occasions.

 

[Black Wheatear]

Hybrid or just strange/odd plumage I honestly don't think we can safely guess either way, certainly appears more Firecrest than Goldcrest for me. Grand looking though.

 

[Xenospiza]

On the forum the white tip to the tertials is mentioned as a Goldcrest character.
Funnily, it misses white under its eye, which both Gold- and Firecrest should show.

 

[rob stoff]

On the forum the white tip to the tertials is mentioned as a Goldcrest character.
Funnily, it misses white under its eye, which both Gold- and Firecrest should show.

That's interesting about the tertials, good comparison of the differing tertial tip patterns here:

http://www.ewartcowanphotos.co.uk/Goldcrests.htm

The mystery bird looks somewhat intermediate in pattern to me, shows a ghost impression of the broad white tips of Goldcrest but more tipping than the fine pale fringes of a Firecrest. As the number of anomalous features for a Firecrest increase the possibility its a hybrid gets stronger...

Rob

 

[Ian Hamiltan]

just looks like a normal firecrest to me

 

[Frenchy]

A goldcrest - http://www.digiscoped.com/dslrgallery/goldcrest_768.jpg

As you can see, the mystery bird shows mostly firecrest like features. It has the bronze neck sides, the bright upperparts, and it even shows the broader black lateral crown stripes that join across the front of the crest (duller in goldcrest). Interestingly, it seems to lack the distinct moustacial stripe that is such a feature of both goldcrest and firecrest. Personally, i think i favour an abbarent firecrest. I've seen enough abbarrent birds over the years to make me think most things are possible! A blue and white blue tit (lacking any yellow and green) in Staffordshire was particularly interesting!