Four bird ID questions (1 Viewer)

[JayFeatherPL]

Hello! Once again, I've got a few brief questions about identifying birds. I hope these are not a problem (guess I won't have more questions for a while).

1.Do Honey Buzzards always show a completely rounded „hand”? Or maybe it can look pointed in some cases (in some juveniles perhaps)?

2.Is wingspan needed to identify birds of prey? I know that estimating the size of a lone bird (e.g. raptor) is notoriously unreliable, but what about the wingspan?

3.Are black edges to a white bib (dark malar stripe and a dark "gorget") a good feature to ID a female Bluethroat (adult or 1st winter)? Or are there better features (apart from the red tail base as this can be not always visible on a standing bird)?

4.When are secondaries visible in standing birds and when are not? I've noticed that in many standing passerines secondaries are visible just above the primaries and tertials are at the top. While in waders (shorebirds) tertials are the closest to primaries and secondaries are hidden. Can you explain to me what does it depend on?

Thank you for every answer in advance! Have a nice day (or night)

 

[nartreb]

You're mostly asking about European birds I'm not particularly familiar with, so I'll leave those questions to others.

For #2, I'm a bit confused. "Wingspan" is the distance from wingtip to wingtip. If you don't trust your sense of size (and you usually shouldn't) then you can't possibly know what that distance is.
However, birds also differ in the overall shape of the wing, and its position relative to the body: the wing's aspect ratio (how narrow it is compared to its length), how pointed the tips are, whether the trailing edge is rounded, whether there is a bend in the wing, whether the wings are held horizontal or in a slight upward V. Using this for ID has its pitfalls, since birds change the shape and position of their wings in response to flight conditions, but even a beginner will usually have little trouble distinguishing between an eagle and a kestrel based on these clues.

For #4, BirdForum's own anatomy page confirms that there are differences between passeriens and waders, notably in the extent of the coverts. Feather layout is not my forte, so I'll say no more there either.