Fieldscope ED82 vs new KOWAs (1 Viewer)

[D Lloyd]

A little while back, I received helpful advice from forum members on my Kowa Prominar 66A vs 88A deliberations (thank you!). I haven't yet made this purchase. The vendor has an excellent return policy, so I thought I would try both out and return one. (I've hesitated to place the order simply because the thought of placing that large a sum on my credit card is daunting, no matter the generous return policy. I digress.) However, I find myself pulled in yet another direction by a recent listing for a mint condition Nikon Fieldscope ED82 A. I would love forum members' thoughts on the relative merits of the old Fieldscopes, particularly the ED82, vs the new Kowas, and also how the ED82 compares to the ED III?

I have never tried a Kowa scope; I settled on it based on reading many reviews and assessing the specs. The only scopes I've tried are Swarovski, Vortex, Vanguard, Celestron, Gosky, and a Nikon Fieldscope ED III (I don't recall what size lens). My best viewing experience by far was through the ED III, for which I've read many laudatory reviews here. I'm not sure how the ED82 stacks up against the ED III? I've been challenged to find accurate or complete specs for these devices; I've seen contradictory information on old listings from different optics vendors. From what I've gleaned from posts here, the eye relief and FOV of the ED82 leave something to be desired. These weren't issues for me when looking through the ED III; should I expect the same with the ED82? I do wear glasses, so eye relief is a concern.

I'm also a bit confused about the eyepiece being sold with the ED82. It's described as "ED82 A w/13-40x/20-60x/25-75x Zoom EYEPIECE MCII ". Are these 3 separate eyepieces? I've read about the 25-75x zoom eyepiece, but not about 13-40x or 20-60x. And, I might be misinterpreting what these numbers mean (likely). From what I've gleaned from the forums, the ED82 zoom eyepiece has a narrow FOV, but if I can find certain fixed eyepieces, this scope offers excellent birdwatching on par with scopes from the Big 3.

For those who switch their eyepieces regularly, do you tend to carry all of them with you in the field? Is it a pain to carry them? I would be concerned about getting dust in the eyepieces in the switching process.

Thanks all. This will be my first scope, so some of these questions I'm sure betray my lack of experience with these optics.

PS. I can be slow to reply sometimes. Thank you in advance for your patience.

 

[Sc0tty]

Nikon 13-40X/20-60X/25-75XMCII Zoom is one eyepiece and refers to the magnifications when the eyepiece is attached to the Nikon ED50/EDIII/ED82 Fieldscopes

 

[4John]

For those who switch their eyepieces regularly, do you tend to carry all of them with you in the field? Is it a pain to carry them? I would be concerned about getting dust in the eyepieces in the switching process.

D Llloyd,

Some on this forum prefer a zoom, some prefer a fixed magnification, usually around 30x, so when I first started using my ED50 I carried a 20-40 MCII zoom and a 27x fixed mag to see if I developed a preference for one or both. The 27x has a nice bright relatively wide field of view, but towards the end of the day I found it getting dark and I needed to trade a lower magnification to get a brighter view so I changed to the zoom. That may be a lot less of a problem with an 82mm scope. Occasionally, when using the 27x I also wanted more magnification, so I changed to the zoom. However, I soon found this a lengthy process because I kept the spare lens in a padded container in my rucsac, I have a stay-on case than needed peeling back, and the lens coming of the scope had to go back in the container the lens going onto the scope came out of (complete with end cap), which was a juggling act, while trying to keep dust out of the open end of the scope, meanwhile the bird had usually disappeared. So the 27x now usually stays at home and the 20-40 zoom stays on the scope. If you can afford a zoom and a fixed mag eyepiece I therefore recommend you carry both, and see how it works for you, allthough the Nikon fixed mag eyepieces are effectively now only available secondhand.

 

[D Lloyd]

Nikon 13-40X/20-60X/25-75XMCII Zoom is one eyepiece and refers to the magnifications when the eyepiece is attached to the Nikon ED50/EDIII/ED82 Fieldscopes

Ah, this makes sense! Thank you.

 

[D Lloyd]

D Llloyd,

Some on this forum prefer a zoom, some prefer a fixed magnification, usually around 30x, so when I first started using my ED50 I carried a 20-40 MCII zoom and a 27x fixed mag to see if I developed a preference for one or both. The 27x has a nice bright relatively wide field of view, but towards the end of the day I found it getting dark and I needed to trade a lower magnification to get a brighter view so I changed to the zoom. That may be a lot less of a problem with an 82mm scope. Occasionally, when using the 27x I also wanted more magnification, so I changed to the zoom. However, I soon found this a lengthy process because I kept the spare lens in a padded container in my rucsac, I have a stay-on case than needed peeling back, and the lens coming of the scope had to go back in the container the lens going onto the scope came out of (complete with end cap), which was a juggling act, while trying to keep dust out of the open end of the scope, meanwhile the bird had usually disappeared. So the 27x now usually stays at home and the 20-40 zoom stays on the scope. If you can afford a zoom and a fixed mag eyepiece I therefore recommend you carry both, and see how it works for you, allthough the Nikon fixed mag eyepieces are effectively now only available secondhand.

Thank you, it helps to hear about the practicalities of using these eyepieces in the field. How did you find the eye relief on both of them?

 

[4John]

Thank you, it helps to hear about the practicalities of using these eyepieces in the field. How did you find the eye relief on both of them?

D Llloyd,

I don't wear glasses so I don't have any experience to offer on eye relief. However, others on the forum do, and it's an issue that often comes up so I am sure someone will share soon.

 

[VonMaunder]

I purchased a Fieldscope ED78 recently, it shipped from Japan with the earlier 38X WF, love the scope and the combination works well thus far, providing all the detail Ive needed, heat haze is often the limiting factor. I wanted to give this set up some time before adding another eyepiece or zoom but the 38X seems to be a sweet spot for me in the open bog/coastal viewing I do. As is often commented--the optics are impressive as is build quality, I do not think an ED82 will disappoint. I put up the specs from the Nikon brochure w/ eyepieces and some eye relief numbers (ED78 specs will be the same for ED82) here, post 5: 1994 Nikon ED78+Fieldscope Brochure Tidbits

 

[dwatsonbirder]

I tried my previous scope (Nikon ED82) against a Kowa 883 (both with 30x) with a view to upgrade. To my eyes, the Nikon was just as sharp with a wider FoV and easier to use with glasses. I didn't "trade up" to the Kowa after extensive viewing. Eye relief with the zoom is poor, but the view with the 30x and 50x W (ideally DS) eyepieces is still one of the best. I've not used the 25-50x with the Kowa, but suspect that is hard to beat if you prefer zoom lenses.

 

[Alexis Powell]

I have the Nikon 82ED (and the 50ED, 60 II ED, 60A II ED, and 78ED scopes) with nearly all the eyepieces and the Kowa 884 (the straight version) with the TE-11W2 25-60x Prominar eyepiece and the TSN-EX16 (1.6x eyepiece multiplier). For my birding purposes, I find that the approach that was used by the old timers when I was growing up works for me. What I mean by that, is that a good 60 mm scope with a 30x eyepiece will do everything that I need for bird ID at least 95% of the time. Consequently, I end up using my 78ED with 30x WF eyepiece the most. It is super comfortable with glasses and is almost as easy to pack as a 60mm Fieldscope, so I carry it instead of a 60 to give me a boost in exit pupil size for greater viewing comfort and for a brighter view in low light. The 82ED is slightly more bulky and also handles differently than the 78ED, but is what I'd use most of the time for birding if I didn't have the 78ED. I like the rugged build of those scopes.

If I need more than 30x magnification with my Nikon 78ED, I usually switch to the 25-75x zoom, which is very sharp but it isn't as comfortable with my glasses and has a poor FOV. I only use the zoom on rare occasion, since I usually don't need the magnification to make IDs at usual birding distances, and distant views are, in my experience, more often limited by atmospheric stability than magnification. If, on very rare occasion, I am doing a lot of very distant scoping, I'll use the 50x WF because it is comfortable with glasses and has a nice wide FOV.

I don't end up using the Kowa for birding much at all. For my purposes, it is overkill, but it is a very nicely compact scope, considering the big 88 mm objective, and its zoom is superbly comfortable with glasses and it has a nice wide field. It seems rugged but not to the same degree as the Nikon 82ED. I do use the Kowa very heavily for my turtle research, where the zoom with 1.6x extender is very handy for getting diagnostic digiscoped photos of the head patterns and other very small diagnostic features of basking turtles, to serve as photo vouchers of distributional records. The Kowa scope with that excellent 25-60x zoom would be my choice for birding if I didn't mind more bulk than the Nikon 78ED and if I needed magnifications above 30x on a regular basis (as I do for the turtle photography). I regularly push the Kowa to 96x for my turtle photo efforts, and for that, I always use it on a very sturdy tripod with very solid head compared to what I use with the Nikon scopes for birding, making the complete Kowa +tripod package, as I use it, heavier and more awkward to carry than my birding kit.

--AP

 

[kimsrk]

Hey D Lloyd,
If you haven't seen it already here are nice spec/model breakdowns that might be helpful:

DS Fieldscope Eyepieces for Digiscoping | Fieldscopes | Nikon Consumer

MC Fieldscope Eyepieces for Observation | Fieldscopes | Nikon Consumer

If you are looking for fixed lenses, I would recommend trying to find the "wide MC" models. They have adjustable eye cups whereas the WDS (digi-scope) models do not. Unfortunately, it is going to be very hard to find any wide MC eyepieces, I haven't found any on eBay and they could potentially be near $300 if you do find one. But if you keep an eye out and get lucky these should be the better choice. actually I took a break and looked while writing this and found one on Optics-Pro for $375.... A bit much if you ask me, but the scopes can be had for pretty cheap, so might be worth it, you could still keep the cost under $1k even with this expensive eyepiece.

For those who switch their eyepieces regularly, do you tend to carry all of them with you in the field? Is it a pain to carry them? I would be concerned about getting dust in the eyepieces in the switching process.

I personally can't see why you would need to switch them in the field, unless you have some very specific use case.
I went out once with the 25-75x MCII and once with the fixed 30x WDS, and both have their advantages and disadvantages, you probably just want to pick one that you think will fit your usage best for each trip. For open areas, where you anticipate needing the adjustable zoom, bring the MCII and for forest scoping the wide angle might make more sense.

I do wear glasses, so eye relief is a concern.

From my experience, you have to just try for yourself. You can get an idea of how eye relief will work from other people's experience, as in, some are more forgiving than others for most people. But so much of appropriate eye relief for you is dependent on how you wear your glasses, style of your glasses, your nose to some extent, and how deep your eyes sit in your socket. Eye relief with glasses will always be very subjective. I have pretty deep-set eyes and a wide nose, so eye relief is really an issue for me with glasses no matter what anyone else says.

That being said, I have a rough time wearing glasses with the 25-75x MCII, and find myself have to remove them to be able to use the scope efficiently for birding. Just my experience. The WDS eyepiece worked better with glasses for me, since my glasses were effectively acting as eye relief stand-offs. Otherwise, the WDS have a removable rubber cup that you can make a kind of crappy eye relief stand-off with, not ideal but it works in a pinch.

Enjoy the scope, it is a good one.
Steve

 

[LOC04]

I too went through this same process. I chose and just got a Kowa 663 with the 20x-60x eyepiece from Scott at Liberty Optics. I felt this would work for all my needs, both in the field and at the range. The glass is first class and Scotts customer service is great. Good luck with your decision.

 

[D Lloyd]

I too went through this same process. I chose and just got a Kowa 663 with the 20x-60x eyepiece from Scott at Liberty Optics. I felt this would work for all my needs, both in the field and at the range. The glass is first class and Scotts customer service is great. Good luck with your decision.

Thanks! Glad you're enjoying your scope!

 

[D Lloyd]

I purchased a Fieldscope ED78 recently, it shipped from Japan with the earlier 38X WF, love the scope and the combination works well thus far, providing all the detail Ive needed, heat haze is often the limiting factor. I wanted to give this set up some time before adding another eyepiece or zoom but the 38X seems to be a sweet spot for me in the open bog/coastal viewing I do. As is often commented--the optics are impressive as is build quality, I do not think an ED82 will disappoint. I put up the specs from the Nikon brochure w/ eyepieces and some eye relief numbers (ED78 specs will be the same for ED82) here, post 5: 1994 Nikon ED78+Fieldscope Brochure Tidbits

Thank you for the link! Glad you're enjoying your scope.

 

[D Lloyd]

I tried my previous scope (Nikon ED82) against a Kowa 883 (both with 30x) with a view to upgrade. To my eyes, the Nikon was just as sharp with a wider FoV and easier to use with glasses. I didn't "trade up" to the Kowa after extensive viewing. Eye relief with the zoom is poor, but the view with the 30x and 50x W (ideally DS) eyepieces is still one of the best. I've not used the 25-50x with the Kowa, but suspect that is hard to beat if you prefer zoom lenses.

Thanks for sharing. The Nikon for sale comes with the zoom lens only. After reading others' experiences with this particular lens, I decided to pass on this purchase. I have been keen to get a scope, though, so finally ordered a brand-new Kowa 66A. I will keep my eye out for larger-sized angled Nikon EDs with W lenses, though.

 

[D Lloyd]

I have the Nikon 82ED (and the 50ED, 60 II ED, 60A II ED, and 78ED scopes) with nearly all the eyepieces and the Kowa 884 (the straight version) with the TE-11W2 25-60x Prominar eyepiece and the TSN-EX16 (1.6x eyepiece multiplier). For my birding purposes, I find that the approach that was used by the old timers when I was growing up works for me. What I mean by that, is that a good 60 mm scope with a 30x eyepiece will do everything that I need for bird ID at least 95% of the time. Consequently, I end up using my 78ED with 30x WF eyepiece the most. It is super comfortable with glasses and is almost as easy to pack as a 60mm Fieldscope, so I carry it instead of a 60 to give me a boost in exit pupil size for greater viewing comfort and for a brighter view in low light. The 82ED is slightly more bulky and also handles differently than the 78ED, but is what I'd use most of the time for birding if I didn't have the 78ED. I like the rugged build of those scopes.

If I need more than 30x magnification with my Nikon 78ED, I usually switch to the 25-75x zoom, which is very sharp but it isn't as comfortable with my glasses and has a poor FOV. I only use the zoom on rare occasion, since I usually don't need the magnification to make IDs at usual birding distances, and distant views are, in my experience, more often limited by atmospheric stability than magnification. If, on very rare occasion, I am doing a lot of very distant scoping, I'll use the 50x WF because it is comfortable with glasses and has a nice wide FOV.

I don't end up using the Kowa for birding much at all. For my purposes, it is overkill, but it is a very nicely compact scope, considering the big 88 mm objective, and its zoom is superbly comfortable with glasses and it has a nice wide field. It seems rugged but not to the same degree as the Nikon 82ED. I do use the Kowa very heavily for my turtle research, where the zoom with 1.6x extender is very handy for getting diagnostic digiscoped photos of the head patterns and other very small diagnostic features of basking turtles, to serve as photo vouchers of distributional records. The Kowa scope with that excellent 25-60x zoom would be my choice for birding if I didn't mind more bulk than the Nikon 78ED and if I needed magnifications above 30x on a regular basis (as I do for the turtle photography). I regularly push the Kowa to 96x for my turtle photo efforts, and for that, I always use it on a very sturdy tripod with very solid head compared to what I use with the Nikon scopes for birding, making the complete Kowa +tripod package, as I use it, heavier and more awkward to carry than my birding kit.

--AP

Thank you so much for sharing your experience. You have quite a collection of scopes!

Given what I've read about the eye relief on the Fieldscope ED zoom lens, I decided to pass on this particular purchase. I've been wanting a scope for a while, though, and my patience for waiting for the right Fieldscope to turn up on eBay is wearing thin. So I just ordered the Kowa 66A, it should arrive in a couple weeks. On a bird walk I attended this past week, several people brought scopes. Of interest to me was a Kowa 88 as well as smaller Swarovski. The smaller scope just seemed more nimble. The owner even carried it into an overgrown area seemingly with ease. The Kowa owner stayed on the trail, but I imagined his scope would be cumbersome in the bush. Not that I'm a big bushwhacker, but overall I think a smaller scope would suit me better. So I ordered the Kowa 66A with zoom kit. Hopefully that'll meet my needs.

From what I've been reading on the forums, however, it seems many birders have more than one scope! So I will keep my eye out for used Fieldscope EDs. Sounds like your 78 hits the sweet spot.

Thanks again.

 

[D Lloyd]

Hey D Lloyd,
If you haven't seen it already here are nice spec/model breakdowns that might be helpful:

DS Fieldscope Eyepieces for Digiscoping | Fieldscopes | Nikon Consumer

MC Fieldscope Eyepieces for Observation | Fieldscopes | Nikon Consumer

If you are looking for fixed lenses, I would recommend trying to find the "wide MC" models. They have adjustable eye cups whereas the WDS (digi-scope) models do not. Unfortunately, it is going to be very hard to find any wide MC eyepieces, I haven't found any on eBay and they could potentially be near $300 if you do find one. But if you keep an eye out and get lucky these should be the better choice. actually I took a break and looked while writing this and found one on Optics-Pro for $375.... A bit much if you ask me, but the scopes can be had for pretty cheap, so might be worth it, you could still keep the cost under $1k even with this expensive eyepiece.


I personally can't see why you would need to switch them in the field, unless you have some very specific use case.
I went out once with the 25-75x MCII and once with the fixed 30x WDS, and both have their advantages and disadvantages, you probably just want to pick one that you think will fit your usage best for each trip. For open areas, where you anticipate needing the adjustable zoom, bring the MCII and for forest scoping the wide angle might make more sense.


From my experience, you have to just try for yourself. You can get an idea of how eye relief will work from other people's experience, as in, some are more forgiving than others for most people. But so much of appropriate eye relief for you is dependent on how you wear your glasses, style of your glasses, your nose to some extent, and how deep your eyes sit in your socket. Eye relief with glasses will always be very subjective. I have pretty deep-set eyes and a wide nose, so eye relief is really an issue for me with glasses no matter what anyone else says.

That being said, I have a rough time wearing glasses with the 25-75x MCII, and find myself have to remove them to be able to use the scope efficiently for birding. Just my experience. The WDS eyepiece worked better with glasses for me, since my glasses were effectively acting as eye relief stand-offs. Otherwise, the WDS have a removable rubber cup that you can make a kind of crappy eye relief stand-off with, not ideal but it works in a pinch.

Enjoy the scope, it is a good one.
Steve

Thanks Steve, I ended up ordering a Kowa 66A, but will still keep my eye out for a larger Fieldscope with an appropriate lens given how glowingly everyone speaks of them. Thank you for sharing the links.

I don't have much experience with scopes aside from looking through those brought by other birders on walks, and until recently never thought to ask any of them what eyepieces they were using. I'm not sure I knew they could be switched out! So I've not thought much on what the different numbers mean and their impact on my viewing experience until I started researching scopes. I'll have to pay more attention going forward.

Meanwhile, I eagerly await the arrival of my Kowa!

 

[D Lloyd]

I find the threading on these forums a little hard to follow, but I think I've replied to everyone. Thank you all for sharing your experience and links. I ordered the Kowa 66A but will keep my eye out for larger Fieldscopes now that I know a bit more about what eyepieces to look for.

 

[kimsrk]

Thanks Steve, I ended up ordering a Kowa 66A, but will still keep my eye out for a larger Fieldscope with an appropriate lens given how glowingly everyone speaks of them. Thank you for sharing the links.

I don't have much experience with scopes aside from looking through those brought by other birders on walks, and until recently never thought to ask any of them what eyepieces they were using. I'm not sure I knew they could be switched out! So I've not thought much on what the different numbers mean and their impact on my viewing experience until I started researching scopes. I'll have to pay more attention going forward.

Meanwhile, I eagerly await the arrival of my Kowa!

Enjoy! Would love to hear your thoughts on the Kowa after you get some use out of it.