COUNTRY INNOVATION or PARAMO (1 Viewer)

[PYRTLE]

Which is the best then and why?

Looking at the current adverts in the Monthly Birdy magazines, what they sell at R.S.P.B. shops to our older fellow members and this newer Nikwax garment that seems to be getting rave reviews I'm a bit unsure. I think Gore-tex is now thought of as too noisy for any sort of birding/liable to leak if not looked after properly...ie crumpled up and thrown into the boot of the car.

Seems a certain well known ceb. favours the traditional Ventile manufacturer (who wouldn't if you got yours free and paid for it) and there are many showing well at a reserve near you! However Im hearing favourable comments about Paramo and their Cascada jacket and trousers, particularly as you are supposed to just throw it into a machine with the correct stuff on a cool wash. Perfect for a single old bloke and cynic like me. Yes, the correct layer sytem is the key to staying warm and dry - but the outer shell is still all important.

All constructive comments most appreciated as I want the correct gear for this winter - cheers. :egghead:

 

[POP]

For me it has to be PARAMO,just seems to be streets ahead of other gear i have used in the past 50 odd years or so.

POP

 

[Richard D]

Which is the best then and why?

Looking at the current adverts in the Monthly Birdy magazines, what they sell at R.S.P.B. shops to our older fellow members and this newer Nikwax garment that seems to be getting rave reviews I'm a bit unsure. I think Gore-tex is now thought of as too noisy for any sort of birding/liable to leak if not looked after properly...ie crumpled up and thrown into the boot of the car.

Seems a certain well known ceb. favours the traditional Ventile manufacturer (who wouldn't if you got yours free and paid for it) and there are many showing well at a reserve near you! However Im hearing favourable comments about Paramo and their Cascada jacket and trousers, particularly as you are supposed to just throw it into a machine with the correct stuff on a cool wash. Perfect for a single old bloke and cynic like me. Yes, the correct layer sytem is the key to staying warm and dry - but the outer shell is still all important.

All constructive comments most appreciated as I want the correct gear for this winter - cheers. :egghead:

Paramo gear is reputedly very well made, quiet and warm and long lasting. Points against are, it's heavy and a lot of walkers find it too warm for all but very cold weather, the face fabric isn't overly thorn resistant but can easily be sewn up without affecting waterproofing.

Country Innovations - some of there stuff is ventile some of it is membrane based.

Ventile - Expensive, very heavy when wet and whilst waterproof under most conditions may eventually transmit dampness once soaked under prolonged heavy rain. Reputedly uncomfortable if got wet and allowed to freeze. It is however very tough, highly breathable and easy care and reputedly very comfortable when dry.

Gore-Tex, Event and other membranes. Much of the reputed noise of these jackets comes from the face fabric not the membrane, and different jackets use different face fabrics e.g. compare Berghaus Cornice (fairly rustly) with Berghaus Storm (fairly quiet). Durability varies - jackets made of Gore-Tex PacLite sacrifice durability for lower weight. Gore-Tex XCR is more breathable but I couldn't find a quiet jacket in it. Event is well regarded as a fairly breathable alternative membrane. Membrane jackets need re-proofing in the same way that Paramo needs re-proofing on a reasonably regular basis to get the best performance. Some of the cheaper alternatives to Gore-Tex/Event have relatively poor breathability and even the best membrane jackets will create condensation under very humid conditions or if you exert yourself. If well looked after a good Gore-tex/Membrane will last you several years before the membrane deteriate. Gore-Tex can be patched if torn.

Waxed cotton e.g. Barbour is very waterproof and windproof, but heavy to walk in.

Other options are less waterproof but more breathable such as proofed Pertex over pile or fleece.


Personally I don't think there is a perfect jacket for all conditions and all people, all have their good and bad points. Fit, useability of pockets etc. also need to be taken into consideration, so I'd recommend visiting a few outdoors shops and seeing what suits you.

Richard
I don't think there's a 'perfect'

 

[POP]

Paramo gear is reputedly very well made, quiet and warm and long lasting. Points against are, it's heavy and a lot of walkers find it too warm for all but very cold weather, the face fabric isn't overly thorn resistant but can easily be sewn up without affecting waterproofing.



I have to say reference gear being heavy no problem at all,and with regards to it being to warm,all you do is undo the zips and let the body cool down naturally.

I don't think there's a 'perfect'.Totally agree with that point.

POP

 

[Richard D]

I have to say reference gear being heavy no problem at all,and with regards to it being to warm,all you do is undo the zips and let the body cool down naturally.

I don't think there's a 'perfect'.Totally agree with that point.

POP

I tried on a Viento, which I think is one of their lighter jackets and for me it felt like wearing a conventional shell combined with a light-mid weight fleece both in terms of weight and warmth - fine for a cold winters day but too warm for me for Autumn/Spring use, but then I 'run' quite hot when I'm walking, and need something that I can comfortably walk a few brisk miles in. It probably doesn't help that I live in one of the warmest parts of the country!I like the idea of Paramo kit and am thinking of getting some Cascada trousers for winter wear (it's a pity they only come in navy and cost a fortne, but they do sound good). Jacket wise if they produce something even lighter (although I suspect their is a limit to how light it can be due to the way the fabric works) or get rid of the horrible reflective stuff on their lighter smock I might be tempted.

I do a lot of walking and I know of other walkers who find it too warm for regular wear. It's great to have an alternative to membranes or ventile and I can understand why those it suits love it.

Richard

 

[Den]

Paramo -top birding kit. Try it, you will not be disappointed. I have used this kit for years in winter and currently prefer an Alta 2 jacket (lighter lining, underarm zips etc). In summer/ autumn I use a Fuera windproof. Not fully waterproof but sheds all but the heaviest showers and can be rolled away into the bumbag it comes with. I love the Cascada trousers, especially the side zips for venting. I spent a lot of time in the field doing artwork and Paramo will keep you comfortable in the widest range of conditions. Try CCC Outdoors for good deals on the net.

 

[christineredgate]

But these products are so very expensive.I do have a Innovations jacket,bought simply for the weight,it is very light,but only wear it late Spring,Summer and early Autumn on coolish days,never when it is raining.But following an earlier thread re waterproof clothing etc,I found this link to www.outdoor-leisure.com and found a Regatta Waxbill 11 jacket,reduced from £60 to £40.It is lightweight and waterproof.It arrived today,and I took the dog for his midday saunter(I only do a very slow short walk with him once a day) and we were caught in the most horrendous storm.My trousers were soaked in seconds,but the top half under the jacket was as dry as a bone.It would be ideal for birding as it is quiet and windproof.There is a vast difference in price as opposed to the Paramo type gear.But it fits the bill perfectly.All pockets are zipped etc,very good value.

 

[Keith Reeder]

The Regatta stuff is very underrated, Christine - I've had a few Regatta jackets, and I'm never disappointed by them.

And as you say, the price!

 

[PYRTLE]

Many thanks to all those who have replied with some very useful comments, it seems you get what you pay for.

 

[Keith Reeder]

it seems you get what you pay for.

I get the sense that the message from this thread is exactly the opposite...

The impression I get from this discussion is that regardless of how much you pay, there are potentially significant downsides to any choice which might make that garment totally wrong for you.

Ventile - heavy, gets waterlogged;
Paramo - fussy maintenance, too hot for many users;
Goretex - limited lifespan, not as breathable as the hype suggests, arguably not as tough as others...

Conversely, cheap and cheerful stuff like Regatta can be exactly what is needed (we're not really talking about life-or-death situations here), and should not be ignored as a perfectly viable alternative to the expensive stuff.

 

[fishingdobbie]

I just bought this regatta jacket off ebay,which I think is a bargain ,very nice coat for £21.00 deliverd http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/regatta-conqu...44106QQcategoryZ11489QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
check it out

 

[jiminlondon99]

Which is the best then and why?

Seems a certain well known ceb. favours the traditional Ventile manufacturer (who wouldn't if you got yours free and paid for it) and there are many showing well at a reserve near you! :egghead:

I get mine FOC but I am not paid to promote it! As an outdoor worker I have had the benefit of having both light and heavy weight Gortex jackets supplied every couple of years. In addition I still have a cordura jacket from my biking days and waxed cotton coat from down-under. Without doubt, unless I am working in a very dirty environment, my favourite jacket is the Country Innovation 2 layer Ventile jacket that I bought myself! I have been out in heavy rain and had it turn white from sea spray salt, it just works and is comfortable. For warmth I wear a casual jacket or fleece, the only downside I have found is that it takes up a lot of room in the suitcase if you are travelling through a hot climate?

Jim

 

[Colin Key]

I would not touch Country Innovations products, despite what the "bearded one" says. I have had two Falcon jackets from them which literally fell to bits within days because of faulty stitching (the zips and press-studs are also very poor quality) and my multi-pocketed waistcoat-cum-vest thingy went into shreds after two months wear.

I have a Barbour "Solway Zipper" bought in 1968 which is still going strong, and more recently bought a lighter-weight Aigle "Edimbourg" jacket. This is essentially a "hunting-shooting-fishing" jacket so is well cut for arm manoeuverability (i.e. using bins), it is fully waterproof, non-rustle, nice moss-greenish colour and has a removable zip-in fleece liner and detachable hood. All Aigle kit is good quality and their wellies are the best on the market.

 

[Hill_Walker]

I have used Paramo for nearly 10 years now, especially in the colder months, and its excellent, however i find it too heavy in summer and switch to a lightweight breathable waterproof combined with a fleece.

This is what i wore yesterday and temperatures (especially on the walk home in the dark were easily hovering around 0 degrees) were low all day.

Layer 1. Polartec T
Layer 2. Patagonia Expedition Base (used as a mid layer)
Layer 3. Paramo Cascada

And in my pack which i wore on the way home was a Mountain Hardwear Gillet made from Polartec 300 (i think), its very warm and lightweight.

 

[PYRTLE]

I have used Paramo for nearly 10 years now, especially in the colder months, and its excellent, however i find it too heavy in summer and switch to a lightweight breathable waterproof combined with a fleece.

This is what i wore yesterday and temperatures (especially on the walk home in the dark were easily hovering around 0 degrees) were low all day.

Layer 1. Polartec T
Layer 2. Patagonia Expedition Base (used as a mid layer)
Layer 3. Paramo Cascada

And in my pack which i wore on the way home was a Mountain Hardwear Gillet made from Polartec 300 (i think), its very warm and lightweight.

Thank you for the constructive views and feedback - with this weekend's winter blast I will need to sort it out very quickly - again thanks to all.

 

[Keith Reeder]

Hi Hill Walker,

I was out in zero/slightly below until after dark on Monday, and got by perfectly well with a Lowe Alpine "Boulder Bones" technical tee and a Berghaus fleece zipped into my Berghaus Storm II.

I also used a very light fleece scarf as an extra layer on my chest, but didn't really need it.

One thing to add is that I don't usually zip interactive fleeces into jackets if it's properly cold: I strongly believe that I'm warmer when they're used as independent layers, rather than the fleece simply becoming the lining of the outer layer.

Oh - and I had a pair of "Porelle Drys" waterproof/thermal socks, which are fantastically warm.

 

[trealawboy]

Try Keela!

 

[Maria Chilvers]

Oooh some interesting comments! As the owner of Country Innovation I will definately agree that there is not the perfect jacket to suit all people, at all times, doing all types of activities. Having spent all of my working life in the production of outdoor gear, it still amazes me how many people want one jacket which is robust enough to withstand harsh conditions yet is small and packable enough to put in the bottom of the rucksack.
Even with all the new fabrics that are available today, it is like looking for the Holy Grail!

When I first established Country Innovation some 10 years ago I chose to specialise in Ventile as I believed it offered the best qualities for the birding market (highly weatherproof, tough, durable, natural and above all quiet). The cost of this fabric is extremely high due to the lengthy manufacturing process but it will certainly outlast manmade fabrics due to the fact that it is just densely woven cotton with nothing manmade to breakdown. Over the past 10 years I am happy to say that we have many, many satisfied customers (including the 'bearded one'!). Thats not to say that some people have other favourites which I completely understand...after all where we would be without the element of 'competition'!

In my defense I would also like to add that customer satisfaction is of utmost importance here at Country Innovation and we go to great lengths to ensure everyone is as satisfied as possible. I take it quite personally when someone is dissatisfied with our products or service. I know that the world is not perfect and that there will always be 'an exception to the rule' but there are always 2 sides to every story. Please listen to the views of the majority, rather than the odd exception!

Kindest regards to all who read this!

Maria Chilvers :scribe:

P.S. Sorry it is rather 'after the event', but I have only just seen this thread today.

 

[Adey Baker]

...Now, if only you could make the 'Harrier' fleece 'thornproof'...

 

[Maria Chilvers]

I know, its really not good enough is it!! Apart from that its a great jacket tho!! :t: