Comparing Some Orion Binoculars (1 Viewer)

[MatthewS]

Good Morning,
This is my first post on Birdforum. I've been a somewhat active birder for a little while and I am looking to step it up to the next level. Currently, I own a pair of Swift Audubon 8.5x44 (1999 model year).

I'd love to get a pair of Swarovski 10x50s, as one view through those caused a sense of addiction. However, I can't afford those at the moment, so I'm comparing a few models by Orion.

I'd be very interested in hearing from people who have had a chance to own or use these binoculars:
10x50 Savannah (roof or porro -- so this is really two different ones!)
10x50 Ultraview
10x50 Vista
9x63 Mini Giant

I realize that there is no simple answer to "which is best," so I am more trying to hear experiences and opinions to sort through!

Here are my main questions:
1. What is the real advantage of porro prisms?

2. What is the practical difference between a 5.3- and a 6.5-degree field of view? The Ultraview and Scenix appear almost identical except for their field of view.

3. Is there something about the Mini Giants that causes them to be worse for birding?

Thanks everyone,
Matthew

 

[g8ina]

Welcome first of all (yay, I get to be first!)

Cant really comment on the other bins, but whats wrong with the Swift ??

I always thought they were the dogs thingies !

 

[Tero]

The 9x binoculars out there all tend to be these big bulky things. 9x40 or 9x50 would be better for birding, but htey do not make such a thing, any brand.

I have not seen ANY Orions, but if I had to pick one, I would take the 8x42
http://www.telescope.com/jump.jsp?itemID=318&itemType=PRODUCT&path=1,2,5,37&KickerID=584&KICKER

I prefer 10x, but there are fewer useable 10x porros out there. In porros the 8x and 8.5x seem to be the best for birding. I am still waiting for 9x40, though.

The problem with 10x porros is the close focus, about 20 ft. If you can manage ato find a close focus of 15 ft, that is getting more like a birding binocular. The one model is close:

UltraView 10x50 WA Binocular
Much wider field of view (6.5°) than standard 10x binoculars. Excels for high-power astronomy, long-distance nature observation, and hunting. 5mm exit pupil, 16’ close focus, extra-long 22mm eye relief. Weighs 32 oz.

No idea how good their optics are.

 

[MatthewS]

Older Swifts

David,
Thanks for the welcome!

The Audubon binoculars I own are not the latest model. The newer ones are much better. I'm not saying the ones I have are bad, but I think I could do better.

Matthew

 

[MatthewS]

Tero,
Thanks for the reply.

From what you're saying, it sounds like the 10x50 roof prism Savannahs might be a good option? They have the 10x50 configuration, and they have a close focus of 15'. I also like that they have the phase coatings, which I have read produces better color and contrast.

I do favor the 10x50 Savannahs, but I wonder if it is a big deal to drop down to 5-degree field of view.

Thanks again,
Matt

The 9x binoculars out there all tend to be these big bulky things. 9x40 or 9x50 would be better for birding, but htey do not make such a thing, any brand.

...

I prefer 10x, but there are fewer useable 10x porros out there. In porros the 8x and 8.5x seem to be the best for birding. I am still waiting for 9x40, though.

The problem with 10x porros is the close focus, about 20 ft. If you can manage ato find a close focus of 15 ft, that is getting more like a birding binocular. ...

 

[Marko_]

Hi Matthew,

1. What is the real advantage of porro prisms?

For the same amount of money you get better quality in porro prism binoculars compared to roof prism binoculars, because roof prisms are more expensive to make.

3. Is there something about the Mini Giants that causes them to be worse for birding?

The Mini Giant is quite big and heavy. Not something I'd like to use for birding. You don't need a 63mm binocular for daytime viewing.

I happen to own a pair of Mini Giant 12x63. I got it for astronomy use.

Marko

 

[MatthewS]

Marko,

I see...

For the same amount of money you get better quality in porro prism binoculars compared to roof prism binoculars, because roof prisms are more expensive to make.
Marko

But then that begs the question...If I am comparing two 10x50 binoculars, assuming all else is equal, but one is porro and the other is roof, is there a good reason to spend the extra money for the roof prism?

Thanks,
Matt

 

[Tero]

BIG issue. There is a definite difference, roof vs. porros. This is an individual preference, you have to see them. Or see any porro or roof that you can try. I use both.

Porros generally have wider FOV for same size.

 

[Sailcat]

I have read very good reports on the Orion Savanah porro prism binoculars. They're a bit more money than some of the others, but the quality is higher, too.

 

[Marko_]

Marko,

But then that begs the question...If I am comparing two 10x50 binoculars, assuming all else is equal, but one is porro and the other is roof, is there a good reason to spend the extra money for the roof prism?

Thanks,
Matt

Like Tero said roof prism bins and porro prism bins are quite different in many aspects. So it would be unlikely to find a pair of 10x50's, of which one is roof and the other is porro, and they are alike in every way!

Some examples:
- Usually porro prism binoculars are not fully waterproof whereas roof prism bins often are.
- Porro prism bins are more sensitive to knocks and other abuse.
- The view is different. The stereo effect is stronger in porro prisms.
- They are quite different ergonomically (holding them in your hands).
- All in all I think roof prism binoculars are considered more "modern", and they usually are sturdier, but you have to pay the higher price to get the decent optics.
- It's up to you to decide then. I hope this helps a little ...

Marko

 

[MatthewS]

Marko,

Thank you again for your help!

... it would be unlikely to find a pair of 10x50's, of which one is roof and the other is porro, and they are alike in every way!
Marko

I made the mistake of lumping the two different Savannahs together. Orion makes a 10x50 porro "Savannah" and they also have a 10x50 roof "Savannah." But I see what you mean -- they aren't simply the same thing with different prisms...

The roof prisms have phase-coatings and waterproofing; while the porro prisms have a wider field of view. It will come down to the merits of these aspects. Well, that and the intangibles of usability!

Unfortunately, I don't have an Orion store near me to give these a try. Hence, my need for some informed opinions!

Thanks again,
Matt

 

[Marko_]

Matthew,

Remember to check the closest focusing distance, also. Seems to be 26 ft. for the Savannah 10x50 porro model. Many birders would consider this too long! The 10x50 roof prism model has 13 ft. which is better.

Are you sure you need a 10x model?

Marko

 

[Tero]

Here are some opinions and views on roof vs. porro
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=52596

 

[MatthewS]

It's only my first day here, and already I'm learning a lot from others. That's great!

Remember to check the closest focusing distance, also. Seems to be 26 ft. for the Savannah 10x50 porro model. Many birders would consider this too long! The 10x50 roof prism model has 13 ft. which is better.

Marko

Sounds like another plus for the roof prisms.

Are you sure you need a 10x model?

Marko

Well, "need" is a funny term here. I'm heading in the direction of having a couple of different binoculars for various purposes. In addition to birding, I'm also interested in casual astronomy, so I will probably get a 9x63, 12x63, or higher for stargazing.

There was a time when I thought I could find a single pair of binoculars that could be great for birding and astronomy, but now I realize I need separate instruments.

I am a woodworker (intricate work) and I have steady hands! So the 10x doesn't worry me.

However, since I am still learning, I'm susceptible to persuasive arguments pro and con!!

Thanks again,
Matt

 

[Marko_]

10x should be fine for birding, but lower power has its advantages.

I hope you are also reading some other threads here on BF. You can find loads of useful information, I'm sure. For example the thread Tero has linked above.

 

[MatthewS]

I hope you are also reading some other threads here on BF. You can find loads of useful information, I'm sure. For example the thread Tero has linked above.

Yes, I am making my way through that discussion now. Based on all those comments, it seems either choice is valid.

 

[MatthewS]

Tero,
Thanks for pointing me at that "roof vs porro" discussion. It is proving to be quite informative.

Here are some opinions and views on roof vs. porro
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=52596

 

[ceasar]

Hi Matt,
I got my Orion Catalog yesterday. There are at least 4 excellent birding binoculars listed in it. All are 8 power and have adequate eye relief and are very reasonably priced. I'd stay away from the 10 powers with their narrow fields and heavy weights and get one of these 8 x's instead.
8 x 42 Ultra View. 430' FOV @ 1000 yards. $149.95
8 x 42 Vista. 341 " " 219.95
8 x 42
Savannah Porro. "" " " 239.95 Water Proof.
8 x 32 Roof Prism 393 " " 329.95 " "
Savannah
All the Porro's have Bak4 Prisms and are fully multicoated (FMC). The Roof Prism has Phase Coating. All are made in Japan.

These will all be very bird friendly binoculars.

Welcome to bird forum.
Bob :t:

 

[MatthewS]

Bob,
Thanks for the input. I was afraid someone would add a new wrinkle to the decision-making process! Hey, this is just the sort of thing I want to hear, so I'll be able to consider as much detail as possible.
Thanks again,
Matt