Can Beidaihe in China be done independently? (1 Viewer)

[Megsonmen]

Hi
I am wanting to go to Beidaihe next May and note 2 or 3 tour companies do it from UK. But, does any one know if there is a cheaper way of doing it - perhaps a company that just books local transport and accomodation as I don't really need the birds pointing out.
Thanks
Graham

 

[Richard Klim]

Hi
I am wanting to go to Beidaihe next May and note 2 or 3 tour companies do it from UK. But, does any one know if there is a cheaper way of doing it - perhaps a company that just books local transport and accomodation as I don't really need the birds pointing out.
Thanks
Graham

Graham,

I suggest you contact Jesper Hornskov. He lives in Beijing and Beidaihe, and has regularly made arrangements for European birders to visit Beidaihe and Happy Island. I'll PM you his e-mail address.

Richard

Edit: Whenever I've flown to east Asia, I've always found that KLM/Air France offer good deals from UK regional airports via Amsterdam/Schiphol or Paris/Charles de Gaulle. It's probably worth you considering flying KLM from Durham Tees Valley (or Newcastle) to Beijing via Schiphol.

 

[philflam]

I went with a tour company and a friend went independently - he saved around £200. I was happy to pay the extra and not have any hassle re transport etc. Breakfast/eve meals were a lot cheaper with the tour company has "tourist" prices will add quite a bit to your expenses. We flew with KLM and a coach was organised for all transport once in China , quicker than the train. It`s the one and only tour company holiday I`ve been on and would have no problem using them again. I like to find my own birds and don`t need birds pointing out. You can do this and will find hardcore birders in the group tend to do their own thing.

 

[rockfowl]

I lead for WildWings, who positively encourage participants to tour the sites (using local taxis) and find their own birds, after an introduction of course, that way we all end up seeing more species. That said, we are both easily contactable and available should any problems arise. You can do it alone, I do myself in the Autumn but bear in mind that you will probably need assistance all the way, unless your Mandarin is really good. There is now a bus from the airport to Quinghuandao, a short taxi run from Beidiahe. I do have contacts, should you wish, you can always pm me. Jesper doesn't live in Beidaihe anymore though is usually on Happy Island for a period during May once his tour elsewhere is finished.

Mark

 

[jurek]

I will second Richard,

Jesper Hornskov of Tibetian birding tours lives in Beijing, and organises hotel, transport & gen in Beidaihe for foreign birders (some of the torn-jeans student variety). I think it is worth the little extra, considering that China is logistic hassle (no English spoken and rip-off attitude).

 

[Gretchen]

Well, it might be best to say that China is not Europe, and traveling without local language or contacts is thus quite challenging (i.e. English availability is sporadic). Prices tend not to be fixed (in certain situations) and thus there are many "pay what you're willing" set-ups (which people can call "rip-offs", but I don't necessarily). Travelers here will probably meet a lot of helpful local people, but many may not be able to communicate very much in English.

For the individual traveler (birder or not), one should think carefully about all the aspects of their trip, and decide which ones they want to just "see what happens" and which parts they want to try to work out in advance.

 

[GXMegson]

Thanks for all the advice - plenty to think about. I'm not the best at organising transport and accom, and being vegetarian I could well go hungry, so am minded to leave it to the tour experts.
Best wishes
Graham

 

[Mike Shurmer]

Having been to Beidaihe with WildWings this year I can strongly recommend the tour. I usually do foreign trips independantly but decided to go with WW because I thought it was excellent value and it took away all the hassle of organising everything myself. Unlike other tours I saw out there, we were left to do your own birding if we wanted which meant we saw more birds. Being vegetarian will not be a problem (in fact the food is excellent).

We did see some people who were there independantly and it can be done, but if you are going to do this then get some advice.

 

[antshrike69]

I agree - there are far worse countries for a vegetarian to be in than China. The food can be fantastic.

 

[Matt Prince]

I've been with Wildwings (indeed Mark was one of the leaders) and if I went again (which is pretty tempting!) I'd do it the same way again. As well as experienced leaders, WW had a chinese fixer to smooth over problems which helped a lot. Best of all worlds in my eyes, no logistics to worry about, a seasoned eye for when to head for lotus hills etc, and you can still go off on your own and bird independently, pooling sightings at the jin-shan.

 

[FXM]

Thanks for all the advice - plenty to think about. I'm not the best at organising transport and accom, and being vegetarian I could well go hungry, so am minded to leave it to the tour experts.
Best wishes
Graham

Hi,

I've been to Beidaihe and other parts of China many times (20+ trips) and I've only used one tour company and that was on my first trip plus I've also been with Jesper on two or three occasions. These days I have very useful contacts that have become trusted friends (both ways) over the years and they help me out. But I'd strongly advise you to use a company for your first trip at least unless you speak the lingo as Mark said.

In terms of money you can save by organising things yourself it is hardly worth it in reality. You will get charged additional costs if you do it yourself and by the time you've finsihed there wont be much in it - perhaps £100 - maybe £200 over a two week trip. You would also have to put a value on the time you would lose organising things yourself.

My advice would be to use a Co. like Wildwings. They'll take the strain out of it for you or maybe Jesper although he might not be at hand but he would be at the end of a phone at least. Not sure which other Companies go there but they might also be worth checking.

Hope that helps.

Frank

 

[china guy]

Not trying to knock the big companies - since I'm sure they do brilliant for many birders - I'd just like to remind folk that not all the China guides are situated outside China - by using those who live 24/7 in-country - you could be hooking up with a smaller service that can quickly cater for those who have budget concerns, and one that offers birding to individuals, whose needs may change as the trip progresses.

But maybe the most important part of trying to go local is that your putting money back into local hands - giving far more reason for Chinese people to try and protect the environment and habitat, which is coming under so much pressure in modern China!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where we are in western China - we'd love it if there were more local guides who could cater for the backpacker birder, and more adventure minded birders who could use their services - eco-tourism maybe one of the important keys to saving some of our birds.

And where do all these local guides lurk? Well there are a couple who lurk on birdforum And a quick trip to birdingpal should also pull out a name or two.
But beware - google searches bring up the names of some Chinese based travel companies that offer birding trips (these guys ain't specialized in birding trips - but may have contacts with local experts)I really can't vouch for the quality or economy involved with of some of these services - so get a reference from past users if you're going in this direction.
Ohhh - and another way of making contact with local birders, who could also help you on your way in China, is to "surf-out" birding clubs and associations in China - there are a few - here and there. This may take a bit of keyboard trekking - especially trying to get in contact with someone who writes decent English - but if you do get a useful contact that leads you into a China birding journey, you may feel a bit of your money could also be going into supporting grass-roots Chinese birding.

 

[rockfowl]

In 'Our' defense Sid and specifically Beidaihe.

WildWings do put quite a lot of money back into local hands, by the very nature of our trip, and also, when available, support and encourage local birdwatchers, in which there are sadly very few in Beidaihe. Unfortunately, the money gained from a 100 or so birders visiting during May is a mere drop in the Ocean compared with the general tourist revenue in an average season, Beidaihe being the famous 'seaside' resort in China, a certain Mr Mao saw to that. We have also been very active in locating and encouraging the protection and improvement of remaining sites, both at a local and government level. Many visiting birders are now aware and have access to these sites because of us. A large gathering of 'western' birders at various locations is far more likely to attract the attention of the media and therefore, in these parts, where pressure is perhaps more accelerated due to the close proximity of Beijing and the new found wealth in China, promote some conservation measures.

I would agree to tread with caution with regards surfing out companies that offer birding trips from within China, often the realities will not live up to expectation.

Having said that, there are a growing band of very competent individuals who should be encouraged and sought out, many of those regular contributors on here, Mcaribou and Xiaoming to name a couple.

 

[china guy]

Hi Mark - sorry if my post sounded a little harsh - the big tour companies must do a great job in many ways - giving top quality birding, providing a source of revenue for locals, profiling China as a great birding destination - and last. but certainly not least, collecting and chronicling so much ornithological data via their trip lists and reports.

My post was more meant as a reminder that the local birding industry - of which, admittedly, there isn't that much, and can be hard to find - also offers a service. This could be an alternative for those who don't like to join big groups - and, at least in theory, would be supporting Chinese birding at the grass-root level.

But however birders get here - with our without tour groups and guides - we need more of you in China - to swell the numbers and make our hobby a more visible past-time
Last week we ran into two Chinese birders - one of them a uniformed policeman - but I'm afraid most locals have never even considered the hobby of birdwatching and hardly know of its existence. If birders were a commoner site over here - maybe some more "I wouldn't mind trying that" bells would start to ring. Of course, within a population of 1.3billion, the hope that a handful of foreign birders could make any real difference to the future of Chinese bird populations can be seen as a pipe-dream. But reserves are created, protection, if being very limited, does exist, and birding - especially bird photography are growing Chinese hobbies - with much of the inspiration for these pro-birdlife developments originating from outside China. A few more binocular clad foreigners chasing after a tick or two - can't help but being walking, breathing adverts for Chinese bird-watching!!!!!

And as last comment to this ramble - with regard to the evolution of birding within China, one can only praise the big bird tour companies for leading the way in making sites like Bedaihe - and indeed our big destinations in Sichuan - more internationally recognized which must have led to more internal recognition and interest. Well done guys - lets hope one day you'll be jostling for veiwing sites with an army of Chinese twitchers:t:

 

[Gretchen]

Just to add a note on local birdwatchers. A few weeks ago I had an interesting chat with a couple of local Chinese bird watchers here. Birding, and in particular bird photography, seems to me to be a quickly growing high status hobby (for the wealthy). Having been away from here for 4 years and then returning, I really do see birding as a growing hobby. While most people are not very aware, I see a growing awareness of bird watching (as there should be here with Beidaihe down the street) even among those who have little awareness of nature. I hope to get to know more of the local birding population, but the guys I chatted with do travel all over China and the world, looking at birds!

 

[rockfowl]

Well written Sid,

Early beginnings....here's a few shots from last November, how about this lot, all watching and photographing (Huge increase in bird paparazzi ) Little Egrets in Beidaihe last year. Why, they had heard it was good ! Shame they didn't notice the Cranes going overhead, but one day...

 

[FXM]

I have not noted any significant increase in local birders in Beidaihe but there has been a huge increase in wildlife photography. If ever I get the chance I chat to them (as best I can) and we exchange info. and I always make a point of letting them know of anything significant I've seen so they can get a shot of it - and vice versa. All good fun and definitely shows that things are moving in the right direction. The mere fact that loads of westerners are seen roaming around, even if it's just during the peak birding periods, must stimulate quite a bit of interest. I tend not to use tour companies but I'd still say it might be the best thing to do in many cases and in particular for a first visit. I've also used Birding Pal and that also worked incredibly well and I ended up having fantastic trips to Kazakhstan (x2) and Armenia but I suppose it is a gamble. What I've noticed over the years and in many countries is that the best birders usually end up as part of a local Tour Company and at that point the price shoots up to such a degree that they price themselves out of my range at least.

Out of interest China Guy I'm looking to head somewhere this Winter. I've been to Yunnan four times and I'm trying to come up with somewhere new. Any thoughts?

Best wishes.

Frank

 

[china guy]

Great to see those pics Mark - I think the swelling numbers of birders is one thing - but where the real c-change takes place is when the general public starts to take on a new attitude towards the cruelty and non-sustainable exploitation of birds and animals.
I'm afraid we're doomed to loose the major battle with regard to saving certain tracks of the environment to on-going development - since its inevitable, just as it is in the west, that major issues regarding employment and personal wealth always supersede the interests of birders and other environmentalists. What we must hope for is that some core areas of eco-rich sites are saved as protected areas - otherwise for certain species the threat of extinction raises its ugly head.
Over that its up to the public to show respect and care for the wildlife that's still found in the China - namely through growing numbers of folk refusing to eat, wear or cage wild creatures - and more willingly report abuses of the laws that are meant to protect China's wildlife.
And with respect to showing less tolerance to illegal wildlife trapping/hunting - it's important to note that all Chinese wildlife is protected by the 1988 wildlife legislation. If you see trapping then you can go report the incidents to the wildlife protection unit that should be based in the local forest bureau. We can't guarantee success - but me and Meggie were pleasantly surprised in how willing our local team is in driving out with us to burn down illegal mist nets.
Once again I'll emphasize how the presence and visibility of foreign, and Chinese birders can only help in boosting a positive change.
My pics are of the kind of encounters we sometimes have - in areas far remoter than Beidaihe - where we meet folk who have never had contact with a birder. Its easy in such circumstances to talk to people and tell them that they should be proud of their birdlife. However, during such brief encounters, you can't force people to stop hunting, but at least you can attempt to get across a message of sustainability - where you plant a concept of hunting to extinction means a resource, one that goes hand in hand with creating popular tourist destinations, goes for ever.
In more developed areas like Beidaihe - where the general public should have more concept regarding environmental destruction and cherishing the nature that's left, and indeed are carrying out activities that border onto birding (photographing the egrets) - then is doesn't take that much to persuade folk that wildlife and birds are well worth saving - and that conservation of animal life is generally recognized, at least in that we call the developed world, as a modern social norm.

Hey Frank,
There's a whole lot of Yunnan to see - after finding caged examples Biet's Laugher in Lijiang market, it has been rediscovered in an area somewhere to the north.
As for Sichuan in the winter - well its down in the valleys time - if you want to see Laughers, Parrotbills and other interesting species in flocks then Jan/Feb time is great in any of the alpine areas. In the old days before the earthquake - you could watch Black-faced, Spotted and Red-winged Laughers feeding in Panda pens at Wolong Panda Center - but there are lots of other areas where you should be able to catch flocks (Moxi and Laba He are often good).
One of our favorite parks is Wanglang (N Sichuan) - we've never done winter there - but I'm pretty sure that'll bring a some nice birds - and "nearby" you have Tangjiahe and the chance of Rusty-throated Parrotbill (it would interesting to see if they're easier to dig out in the winter than the summer).
But beware - Sichuan - can be chilly during the winter!!!!!

 

[FXM]

Hey Frank,
There's a whole lot of Yunnan to see - after finding caged examples Biet's Laugher in Lijiang market, it has been rediscovered in an area somewhere to the north.
As for Sichuan in the winter - well its down in the valleys time - if you want to see Laughers, Parrotbills and other interesting species in flocks then Jan/Feb time is great in any of the alpine areas. In the old days before the earthquake - you could watch Black-faced, Spotted and Red-winged Laughers feeding in Panda pens at Wolong Panda Center - but there are lots of other areas where you should be able to catch flocks (Moxi and Laba He are often good).
One of our favorite parks is Wanglang (N Sichuan) - we've never done winter there - but I'm pretty sure that'll bring a some nice birds - and "nearby" you have Tangjiahe and the chance of Rusty-throated Parrotbill (it would interesting to see if they're easier to dig out in the winter than the summer).
But beware - Sichuan - can be chilly during the winter!!!!!

Thanks China Guy,

I've been to Kunming and XiShan, up to Lijiang, Dali, Baoshan and the Gaoligongshan, then west to Tenchong and out to Ruili and beyond including several areas between and I've always had a great time.

I've also been to Sichuan during late May I think it was: Wolong and up the hill;, Wawushan, Rue Gai and up to the mountains to Jiuzhaigou- basically you could say it was the normal route done by most visitors and it was great.

But as you quite rightly point out they are both pretty big places and there is much to see in both - particularly when you start visiting in different seasons. I'll have to give things some serious thought.

Out of interest I also snook in a visit to the Qinling Mtns several years ago which was superb and managed to get up close to a Giant Panda - plus loads of other great things. Another very impressive area.

If you've got any other thoughts about where I might visit I'm all ears.

Many thanks for your help.

Frank

 

[DMW]

Frank
Maybe you've already done this trip, but a mate and I did a short early winter visit to SE China a few years ago and had a really good time - Poyang, Yiyang, Guan Shan, Dongzhai and Yancheng. Brilliant birds, not too cold, and easily organised with a few emails.
Cheers
Duncan