Brent Geese latin names. (1 Viewer)

[Andrew]

Can anyone tell me if Dark Bellied Brent Goose is a separated species or is it still lumped under Brent Goose (Branta bernicla). I am revising my lists by putting in the latin names and want clear this up before carrying on. I assume the Dark Bellied should be written as Branta Bernicla and the Pale Bellied as Branta hrota?

 

[birdman]

Hi Andrew,

From GGBC experience, it would seem that Dark and Pale Bellied are still regarded as subspecies of the Brent full species.

 

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Andrew,

They're still all one species, and likely to remain so except for supporters of the UK400 club's non-scientific approach.

Dark-bellied: Branta bernicla bernicla
Pale-bellied: Branta bernicla hrota
Black: Branta bernicla nigricans

Note also the spelling differnce of the English name, Brent in UK, Brant in USA

Michael

 

[Andrew]

Thanks for explaining the naming, I thought it was bernicla just once. Now I shall put it down as twice after Branta.

Another bird, am I right thinking the Parasitic Skua is the Arctic Skua?

 

[Malvolio]

Although I do not prsonallysubscribe to the Phylogenetic Species Concept as a sensible or practical means of describing biological diversity it is fundamentally scientific in its basis. This is the species concept followed by the IQ 40 club who choose to take their lead from the Dutch taxonomic body the CDSNA who do follow the PSC.

Also, the Brent complex is a little more complicated than has been implied:

The three forms Michael has mentioned are:

Dark-bellied brent: Branta bernicla bernicla
Pale-bellied brent: Branta bernicla hrota
Black brant: Branta bernicla nigricans

to this list might be added a form in Asia (wintering in Korea for example) which is sometimes given the scientific name B. b orientalis but which has not been assigned an English name.

In addition there is a very poorly known (and possibly endangered) form breeding on Melville Island in the Canadian arctic which has been assigned and English name (Grey-bellied Brant/Brent) but no scientific name.

MV

 

[robinm]

Yes Parasitic Skua is the Arctic Skua.

In my Collins Bird Guide I bought just after it came out the term Parasitic Skua is used. In the large format version Arctic Skua is used.

 

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Malvolio,

What do PSC fans do with the species Homo sapiens? - several phylogenetic taxa readily distinguishable in the field, but not a shred of genetic evidence for any speciation

Right on about the two other forms of Brent Geese, but as neither has been reliably recorded in Britain I didn't want to complicate things by mentioning them here!

Of potential species splits among geese, there's a far better justification for splitting Greenland Whitefront off from Eurasian Whitefront. Unlike the Brent races (which mix freely with each other), G and E Whitefronts don't acknowledge each other for the same and don't form intermingled flocks.

Michael

 

[Andrew]

Thanks for that robinm.

The latin names you see in the Collins. If there is a latin name under a bird sketch then do you add that on to the end of the latin name for the bird species in the text. I wanted to know as I am not sure whether for example Pied Wagtail should be Motacilla alba yarrellii and White should be Motacilla Alba. Another example is Steppe Buzzard do you add vulpinus to the end of Buteo buteo or subsitute the last buteo with Vulpinus.

No, don't get worked up, I ain't seen one!

 

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Andrew,

Yes, that's right, except that species and subspecies names never take a first capital letter, always lower case (whereas a genus always starts with a capital)

Michael

 

[Andrew]

Right, I see. So my Pied Wagtail should be put down as motacilla alba yarrellii?

 

[robinm]

Andrew

The genus is the first of the 2 (or 3) words so pied wagtail is Motacilla alba yarrellii and white wagtail Motacilla alba or sometimes to differentiate it from pied Motacilla alba alba.

Steppe Buzzard is Buteo buteo vulpinus.

Hope this helps.

 

[Andrew]

Michael said not to use capitals for subspecies which is why I asked if Pied is motacillia as opposed to Motacillia?

 

[robinm]

Andrew

The name consists of three parts: the genus, then the species and then the (optional) subspecies. The genus is always capitalised, but the species and subspecies are always lower case, hence Motacilla alba yarrellii or Motacilla alba and Buteo buteo vulpinus or Buteo buteo .

Sorry if that wasn't clear before.

 

[Andrew]

Ah! Right I have now got the system of the italic latin names. Thanks for clearing that up when Michael mentioned the Subspecies name I thought he was referrign to the whole three names as the subspecies name. Brilliant, thanks.

 

[Malvolio]

Michael Frankis wrote

"What do PSC fans do with the species Homo sapiens? - several phylogenetic taxa readily distinguishable in the field, but not a shred of genetic evidence for any speciation"

As far as I can tell they look uncomfortable and try to change the subject!

Regarding genetic studies relating to species rank: I'm doubtful whether they're yet subtle enough to have significant value.

MV

 

[Andrew]

Apologies for showing how incompetent I am. I have a good chance of seeing some Balearic Shearwaters this weekend and want to know if these are the Mediterranean Shearwaters in the Collins?

 

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Andrew,

Yep, Balearic Shearwater = Mediterranean Shearwater (at least as far as Britain is concerned - 'Med Shear' also includes the East Mediterranean yelkouan, recently split from Balearic, but not recorded in Britain. The ones you might see are the ones with the latin name mauretanicus)

Michael

 

[Malvolio]

These shearwaters are a good case in point - and indicate why scientific names are so vital. Scientific names are consistent and stable to a degree that colloquial names are not.

Not so long ago their was just one species, Manx Shearwater - scientific name Puffinus puffinus. There are several subspecies but the ones that concern us here were

Puffinus puffinus puffinus (breeding in Britain etc...)
Puffinus puffinus yelkouan (breeding in the E Mediterranean)
Puffinus puffinus mauretanicus (breeding in the Balearic Islands)


Then it was decided that there were two different species:

Puffinus puffinus and Puffinus yelkouan - roughly speaking one species in the Atlantic (Manx)and another in the Mediterranean (appropriately enough this was called Mediterranean)

Then it was decided (subsequent to the publication of Collins) that the birds in the Mediterranean were two different species, viz:

Puffinus yelkouan
Puffinus mauretanicus

Both of these species are monotypic - i.e they have no subspecies (otherwise they would be described as polytipic) and do not need to be given a third (subspecific) name

The birds that occur in British waters are Puffinus mauretanicus or Balearic Shearwater. Puffinus yelkouan now goes under the name Yelkouan Shearwater but this has never been recorded in Britain and, because of the identification difficulties, probably wont be until a tideline corpse is found and studied.

As such the Mediterranean Shearwater described in the Collins guide no longer exists!

MV

PS. Balearic Shearwaters are currently declining at a frightening rate and may be headed for extinction - rather quirkily they actually seem to be on the increase in British waters.

 

[Andrew]

Thanks again folks. The Collins seems to be quite unclear on this by stating yelkouan next to the title in the text and showing the yelkouan as a subspecies in the plate. I would not have known all this if I hadn't asked. Thanks again.

 

[kmonty1950]

Andrew,

2 Balearic shearwaters off Exmouth seafront this afternoon, fairly close to shore and at Orcombe Point end. Don't forget BGM in your travels, 2 Roseate terns there this evening.

Best regards

Ken.