blue crow? (1 Viewer)

[r f maginnis]

What is this, please? I photographed this black-headed blue crow? about noon on 2/2/07 at Topanga (Trippett Ranch) State Park, California near an oak woodland and an open field perched on a fence rail and again foraging by digging in dried mud at the rim of an adjacent small pond (see the dust on its beak). In Manual of Birds, Sibley paints a Tamulaipas Crow which he describes as all blue and limited in the US to Brownsville (near the mouth of the Rio Grande) Topanga is in the coastal mountains about 5 miles from the sea and Malibu. The altitude would be at most 2000 feet. For comparison, the fence post is 4x4 inches or 5.6 on the diagonal. Note the pale legs and soft feathers on the back. Topanga is a place where crows and ravens tolerate one another. This is a digital photo unretouched. Thanks.

 

[Jane Turner]

I take it that the bird looked blue all the time of your observation, not just at certain angles. Most corvids have an iridescent sheen.

Welcome to BF by the way

 

[lou salomon]

..and the species is american crow (corvus brachyrhynchos). it's gloss that looks blue. welcome, r f maginnis :loveme:

 

[Gentoo]

I agree with Lou on American Crow. I've seen a similar gloss on them before and the bird appears too bulky for a Tamaulipas Crow .

 

[delia todd]

Hi r f maginnis I see this is your first post, so may I welcome you on behalf of the Staff and Moderators at Bird Forum

I see you are already getting some help with the identification of your crow

D

 

[r f maginnis]

I take it that the bird looked blue all the time of your observation, not just at certain angles. Most corvids have an iridescent sheen.

Welcome to BF by the way

Mystery solved thanks to Guy McCaskie, Secretary California Rare Bird Council. It is a purplish-backed jay Cyario corax beechei native to West Mexico from southern Sonora into Nayarit, probably a pet released locally - will survive handily but probably not find a breeding partner. You can see a picture and description on Wikipedia. Thanks for your suggestion. r f maginnis

 

[r f maginnis]

..and the species is american crow (corvus brachyrhynchos). it's gloss that looks blue. welcome, r f maginnis :loveme:

Mystery solved. According to Guy McKaskie, Secretary of California Rare Bird Council, it is a purplish-backed jay (Cyario corax beecheii) native to west Mexico from southern Sonora into Nayarit, probably a released pet that will handily survive but not find a mate. See a picture at Wikipedia. Thanks for your reply. r f maginnis

 

[r f maginnis]

I agree with Lou on American Crow. I've seen a similar gloss on them before and the bird appears too bulky for a Tamaulipas Crow .

Mystery solved. According to Guy McCaskie, Secretary of the California Rare Bird Council, it is a purplish-backed jay (Cyario corax beecheii) native to west Mexico from southern Sonora into Nayarit. Probably a released pet that will handily survive but not find a breeding partner. See a picture on Wikipedia. Thanks for your reply. r f maginnis

 

[AlexC]

RFM, with no offense intended towards you or Guy, I'm quite certain your bird is not a Purplish-backed Jay for a few reasons.

1) Your bird's legs are black (PBJs' are yellow),
2) your bird's eyes are black (PBJs' are yellow),
3) your bird's bill - relative to body - is American Crow-size (not small as a PBJ's would be),
4) your bird has a glossy black-blue tone on its entire lower body - wings, tail, flanks, underside, etc. (PBJs have, first of all, not glossy, but blue/purple coloration, and this coloration is only on wings and parts of the tail (tail feathers, from available photos I could find, seem to be edged black (EDIT: my mistake - I was seeing the black undertail through ruffled tail-feathers), and flanks, underbelly, and undertail are a definite black)),
5) your bird's tail is expected length of American Crow's in relation to its body (PBJs' tails are almost half their length!), and
6) your bird is just too big. I don't have my Howell & Webb (Mexico bird book) with me right now to see measurements, but from all the photos I could find of PBJs online, they seem diminuitive and magpie-sized. Your bird is clearly a Corvus, not a Cyanocorax.

Here are the only photos online I could find of PBJs, but I think they probably speak better than my rant:
http://zettesworld.com/zooblog/030906SanBlasJay.jpg
http://www.hillcountryaviaries.com/images/purpilishbacked.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Purplish-backed_Jay.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Purplish-backed_Jay_eating.jpg

Wanted to also offer up some photos from our gallery here at BirdForum as comparatively glossy-blue-looking American Crows. Given, most aren't as glossy as your bird, but hey, that's variation for ya!

http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php/photo/100372/sort/1/cat/all/page/1
http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php/photo/46222/sort/1/cat/all/page/2
http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php/photo/43446/sort/1/cat/all/page/2
http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php/photo/77285/sort/1/cat/all/page/1
http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php/photo/68394/sort/1/cat/all/page/2
http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php/photo/18098/sort/1/cat/all/page/2

 

[Gentoo]

RFM, with no offense intended towards you or Guy, I'm quite certain your bird is not a Purplish-backed Jay for a few reasons.

1) Your bird's legs are black (PBJs' are yellow),
2) your bird's eyes are black (PBJs' are yellow),
3) your bird's bill - relative to body - is American Crow-size (not small as a PBJ's would be),
4) your bird has a glossy black-blue tone on its entire lower body - wings, tail, flanks, underside, etc. (PBJs have, first of all, not glossy, but blue/purple coloration, and this coloration is only on wings and parts of the tail (tail feathers, from available photos I could find, seem to be edged black (EDIT: my mistake - I was seeing the black undertail through ruffled tail-feathers), and flanks, underbelly, and undertail are a definite black)),
5) your bird's tail is expected length of American Crow's in relation to its body (PBJs' tails are almost half their length!), and
6) your bird is just too big. I don't have my Howell & Webb (Mexico bird book) with me right now to see measurements, but from all the photos I could find of PBJs online, they seem diminuitive and magpie-sized. Your bird is clearly a Corvus, not a Cyanocorax.

Here are the only photos online I could find of PBJs, but I think they probably speak better than my rant:
http://zettesworld.com/zooblog/030906SanBlasJay.jpg
http://www.hillcountryaviaries.com/images/purpilishbacked.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Purplish-backed_Jay.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Purplish-backed_Jay_eating.jpg

Wanted to also offer up some photos from our gallery here at BirdForum as comparatively glossy-blue-looking American Crows. Given, most aren't as glossy as your bird, but hey, that's variation for ya!

http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php/photo/100372/sort/1/cat/all/page/1
http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php/photo/46222/sort/1/cat/all/page/2
http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php/photo/43446/sort/1/cat/all/page/2
http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php/photo/77285/sort/1/cat/all/page/1
http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php/photo/68394/sort/1/cat/all/page/2
http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php/photo/18098/sort/1/cat/all/page/2

again I agree that this bird is an American Crow.

 

[cavan wood]

Judging from the photos provided by Alex, purplish-backed jays have yellow eyes, yellow legs, shorter bills, blue wings contrasting with black belly, and a slim build. The subject bird has none of these features. I've never seen a sheen quite like that on the subject bird, but I agree with american crow.

Scott

 

[r f maginnis]

blue crow devil's advocate

I have attached two additional photos of the blue crow? and a pdf file (use Acrobat Reader-its free) on the distinctions between the American Crow and the Purplish-backed jay. Thank all of you for your interest and expertise.

 

[steveo]

The bird is definitely a crow (of some sort).No two ways about it. What the hell is up with the blue?

 

[joe cockram]

Mystery solved. According to Guy McCaskie, Secretary of the California Rare Bird Council, it is a purplish-backed jay (Cyario corax beecheii) native to west Mexico from southern Sonora into Nayarit. Probably a released pet that will handily survive but not find a breeding partner. See a picture on Wikipedia. Thanks for your reply. r f maginnis

errm. is anybody else slightly worried that the "Secretary of the California Rare Bird Council" could make such a shocker.

hand that man a loaded pistol.

joe

 

[Larry Sweetland]

errm. is anybody else slightly worried that the "Secretary of the California Rare Bird Council" could make such a shocker.

hand that man a loaded pistol.

joe

You might be making an assumption here, eg. he might not have seen the photo and could have just made a suggestion based on a verbal description.

 

[steveo]

Guy McCaskie is incorrect and that is very surprising.

 

[TupeloN8]

The only way I would think the Secretary of the CA Rare Bird Council would call this a Purplish-backed Jay is if he had not seen the photos and had only heard a description that played up the odd color and failed to take into account the other "typical crow" characteristics. If he had indeed seen these photos and still made this kind of egregious mis-ID, that person should probably be removed from their position. And given Guy McCaskie's reputation in California, it has to be the former.

I read the jay.pdf and personally, I don't even see how the blue gloss is that far out of the ordinary for a typical American Crow. I have crows occasionally come to my suet (and clean me out) that show this iridescence in the right lighting. It's an American Crow, end of story.

 

[cjwolf]

Just looking at shape, I'd definitely call that bird an aberrant American Crow. A Purplish-backed Jay would have a longer tail and have a more streched out look, and I would never even consider any species of jay if I found this bird in the field. Also note that in the first picture the eye is dark. Adult Purplish-backed Jays have bright yellow eyes. While the juveniles have dark eyes they also have a bright yellow bill. As has been said by several others, the bill is not the right size for a Purplish-backed Jay; it is much too large (proportionally). I'd also like to point out that the nasal bristles are very large and brushy (look at the first picture posted) that is a trait of crows and ravens, in jays they're much less distinct and smaller. Here's a nice close-up a Am. Crow's head and bill:

http://www.birdsasart.com/American Crow.jpg

As far as size goes, taking measurements in the hand you're bound to have large and small birds. Size of a lone bird is rarely useful for identification, and measuring the bird from a picture can be very inaccurate.

Cole

 

[Chris Benesh]

errm. is anybody else slightly worried that the "Secretary of the California Rare Bird Council" could make such a shocker.

hand that man a loaded pistol.

joe

Hi All,

I agree with the majority here that this bird is a Corvus spp. rather than a Cyanocorax jay.

It just seems a bit presumptive, rude, and inappropriate to be dising someone like Guy McCaskie without knowing any specifics, having been given only secondhand information. Knowing Guy personally, he is not the sort that would mistake these pictures for a Purplish-backed Jay. Guy was birding actively in Scotland and then in California before most of us were even alive, yet alone beginning to wonder what a bird was. He is a sharp birder with great attention to detail. Contrast this with an example of a lack attention to detail in the second hand comment; the body being referred to is the California Bird Records Committee (CBRC), not the California Rare Bird Council.

Chris

 

[AlexC]

As has been made clear throughout this thread, the bird is an American Crow. I said everything I wanted to say in my other post, and if you want to know why it is an American Crow and not a Purplish-backed Jay, r f maginnis, I'd suggest that you actually read my entire previous post this time and view the links I provided. I hope no more time is wasted on this very trivial discussion concerning an ID that has been confirmed post after post.