Black Kite or Red Kite? Alentejo Portugal (1 Viewer)

[Bert]

Hi All,
This photo was made today in the Alentejo region of Portugal.
There is some discussion about this kite. In my opinion it is a Black Kite, others suggest Red Kite.
Looks to me that the tail is a straight line although some feathers are shortened.
May I have your opinion please?
Thanks,
Bert

 

[tconzemi]

very nice Black Kite identified by breast markings (thin), primary patch (barred to tips), number of fingers, barring of tail

 

[P.Sunesen]

Yes, definitely an adult Black Kite. Just a bit over lit on the underside.

 

[Bert]

Thank you Tom and P. Sunesen.

 

[KGS]

Agree this isn't a Red Kite. Broad wing-tip with six obvious fingers does not match that spieces. However I wonder if the very clear contrast between primaries and secondaries is really within what can be expected for a Black Kite. Also the there seems to be obvious rufous tones on belly. I doubt these issues can be explained as photo artefacts. I find that there is reason to consider the hybrid option.

 

[tconzemi]

very clear contrast between primaries and secondaries is really within what can be expected for a Black Kite. Also the there seems to be obvious rufous tones on belly. I doubt these issues can be explained as photo artefacts. I find that there is reason to consider the hybrid option.

I agree these are no artefacts but strongly disagree that this is out of range for Black Kite. It may be quite extreme for Western birds but much more common in eastern range of M.m.migrans
Rusty as a Red Kite and large light primary pannels make them close to a Red Kite from afar

 

[KGS]

I agree these are no artefacts but strongly disagree that this is out of range for Black Kite. It may be quite extreme for Western birds but much more common in eastern range of M.m.migrans
Rusty as a Red Kite and large light primary pannels make them close to a Red Kite from afar

Portugal is fairly far west within BK's range though.

 

[RafaelMatias]

I think the photo is slightly over-exposed, making the pale window on the primaries to stand out a bit. In my experience spring adults with rusty underparts are not really unusual: the illustration and text in Collins seems to be a bit misleading on that respect.
Here's a range of Black Kites from Portugal: https://www.flickr.com/search/?w=26922203@N00&m=pool&q=migrans
and some rusty individuals (all spring adults):
1) https://www.flickr.com/photos/j_frade/8294890164/
2) https://www.flickr.com/photos/mariarego/3422659368/
3) https://www.flickr.com/photos/rgamboias/6025367179/
4) https://www.flickr.com/photos/pauloagleite/9052066757/

 

[Sangahyando]

I agree these are no artefacts but strongly disagree that this is out of range for Black Kite. It may be quite extreme for Western birds but much more common in eastern range of M.m.migrans

Yeah, but OTOH the eastern birds (at least lineatus), while sporting a more contrasting plumage, seem much "colder" in colour.

I think the photo is slightly over-exposed, making the pale window on the primaries to stand out a bit. In my experience spring adults with rusty underparts are not really unusual: the illustration and text in Collins seems to be a bit misleading on that respect.

That's a good point, actually. I've been nearly misled to identify migrating BK in spring as RK on occasion because of the colouring.

 

[tconzemi]

Yeah, but OTOH the eastern birds (at least lineatus), while sporting a more contrasting plumage, seem much "colder" in colour.

I am not talking about lineatus which is a quite different taxon but about Milvus migrans migrans (abr.: M.m.migrans) and quoting Dick Forsman: many (if not all) of the Red Kite reports east of Turkey and Israel are probably due to misidentification of these reddish M.m.migrans

 

[Atricapilla]

Great shot Bert,we have seen these wonderful birds almost daily this spring flying over our house in Central Portugal

 

[Bert]

Thank you all for your help!
Cheers,
Bert