Birds, fishing and the RSPB (1 Viewer)

[John Chap]

I read in an angling magazine that the RSPB has purchased Burton Mere and there will no longer be any fishing aloud at this site (this has been an anglers paradise for over 30 years).

I must confess that this is the first time I have been against the RSPB and do not agree with their ethics.

I have been a memeber of the RSPB for many years. However, I am a keen angler and like most anglers we constantly feed the birds with maggots and other baits.

I think that the RSPB have gone nuts and really do not understand that most anglers are keen on preserving wildlife!

My view on this is that I do not think I should renew my RSPB memebership as my money is being used to stop a pastime I enjoy!

What's your views?

 

[Capercaillie71]

Probably the first thing you should do is contact the RSPB and ask if the report you have read is true, and if so, what their justification for stopping fishing is. Then you will be able to make an informed decision about your membership.

 

[Barred Wobbler]

Some lakes and reservoirs where I've fished (and more where I haven't) have areas of the bank cordoned off and buoys moored to prohibit access to certain parts of the lake (often a large percentage of the total) which are set aside as nature reserves to prevent disturbance to wild-life while allowing fishing in the less sensitive areas.

 

[DavidP]

The same thing happened here on the Island (Isle of Wight) when the RSPB bought land and created a reserve. They refused to renew a lease for the fishing rights. That was a year ago. Just recently they negotiated with the local angling club and now fishing is allowed with certain restrictions. I think the RSPB will work with clubs and I don't think there totally anti fishing. Worth as mentioned above writing to them and letting them know your opinion.

 

[KnockerNorton]

Angling isn't always compatible with conservation. You only have to go to some of the commercial fisheries to see that - it's 4 ft of water and 3ft of fish. And little else. A lot of the maggots are actually full of salmonella and are fairly toxic to birds, and relaxation of the close season on stillwaters means that there is now much more disturbance during the breeding season. Lost tackle is also still an issue at lots of places, also litter. There are bad apples in every barrel, but the popularity of angling means that that's quite a lot of bad apples among the good. You can just imagine the stink that would kick up if a swan got a load of tackle down the throat in an RSPB reserve - it's probably the sort of conflict they'd rather avoid by not having angling at all.

 

[Gill Osborne]

Lost tackle is also still an issue at lots of places, also litter. There are bad apples in every barrel, but the popularity of angling means that that's quite a lot of bad apples among the good. You can just imagine the stink that would kick up if a swan got a load of tackle down the throat in an RSPB reserve - it's probably the sort of conflict they'd rather avoid by not having angling at all.

That's probably one of the main reasons. Unfortunately there are still a few numpties who couldn't care less about taking their rubbish home and this gives all the rest a bad name. I'm certainly not anti-fishing or anything like that before anybody has a go at me - fishing HAS done a lot of good in our waterways being kept clean and at a few nature reserves where it IS allowed anglers are a good deterrent against egg thieves.

Perhaps, as had already been said, perhaps fishing has only been temporarily 'suspended' for the time being. I would write to or ring The Lodge and speak to somebody about it.

 

[KnockerNorton]

A quick flick through the Angling Times and Angler's mail, and seeing their Sun-style campaigns for open season on cormorants ("the Black Plague"), might also have influenced the RSPB's opinion on the angling lobby. It certainyl did them no favours at all with me.

If you look at it objectively, why would the RSPB want angling on their resrves? It has no real positives for them, unless they charge for it. It doesn't improve management, and with the RSPB there's no need for anglers to keep and eye on the water quality etc. The negatives to the RSPBs aims (in terms of disturbance, management etc) probably outweigh the positives by a large degree.

 

[John Chap]

I thank you all for your input and different views, yes there are bad apples in every barrel the same can be said for some twitchers. However, to take something away (like fishing these lakes) that's been going on for over 30years ends up with a bad bio-diversity to all creatures not just birds. For example, if fish do not get the food they are used too then they may become ill in health which will cause disease to spread to birdlife as well!

Many Thanks

 

[Vectis Birder]

Poecile is quite right, angling can cause many problems with birds caught in fishing line and hooks down birds' throats/puncturing beaks and so on. There may be - a minority of - anglers who don't give a toss, but (having fished myself, as a kid in the 80's) I know that line can easily break and tackle end up where it's not easily retrieved and even a slight risk of a bird getting killed or injured is a risk too far (one reason I gave up fishing).

I didn't know that maggots were bad for birds though - interesting.

Angling isn't always compatible with conservation. You only have to go to some of the commercial fisheries to see that - it's 4 ft of water and 3ft of fish. And little else. A lot of the maggots are actually full of salmonella and are fairly toxic to birds, and relaxation of the close season on stillwaters means that there is now much more disturbance during the breeding season. Lost tackle is also still an issue at lots of places, also litter. There are bad apples in every barrel, but the popularity of angling means that that's quite a lot of bad apples among the good. You can just imagine the stink that would kick up if a swan got a load of tackle down the throat in an RSPB reserve - it's probably the sort of conflict they'd rather avoid by not having angling at all.

 

[John Chap]

Ist I have heard that maggotts are bad for birds!

I suppose we should feeding them worms as well, and sweetcorn, and seed etc..

 

[KnockerNorton]

Ist I have heard that maggotts are bad for birds!

I suppose we should feeding them worms as well, and sweetcorn, and seed etc..

If you think what maggots are reared on - dead (diseased/injured/weak) chickens from poultry farms - it's a bit more obvious why they might themselves be full of lethal bacteria. I was hand-feeding a sparrow once, feeding it on egg etc, then switched to crushed casters. It got a salmonella type infection and was dead 2 days later. What maggots pick up and carry from chickens can easily be passed to wild birds.

Which brings me to somehting John Chap said, about biodiversity and fish passing on sickness to birds. As far as I know, fish do not pass diseases to birds. In fact, it's usually birds being lethal for fish by eutrophifying the water. Also, banning angling does not lead to a loss of biodiversity, because overstocked ponds soon reach equilibrium as there is no annual restocking to prop up numbers. In fact, stocking with fish (which are usually of an exotic species such as carp (foreign) or barbel - a river fish) is bad for wildlife, as they eat all the nymphs, tadpoles etc. So species like newts get wiped out. Water quality usually decreases aswell, as all that unused bait and fish poo from too many fish rots on the bottom.

 

[John Chap]

many thanks for your input Poecile, It seems you learn something new everyday.

As i frequently feed birds maggotts I am now distruaght that I have killed so many birds, especially since my love for birding goes back to when I was 7 years old (actually the same amount of time as my love for angling)

I now must change my method of feeding as i feed hundreds of starlings everyday along with all the other garden birds (never seen one dead in my garden by food poisoning though..)

Many thanks

 

[parttimer]

If you think what maggots are reared on - dead (diseased/injured/weak) chickens from poultry farms - it's a bit more obvious why they might themselves be full of lethal bacteria. I was hand-feeding a sparrow once, feeding it on egg etc, then switched to crushed casters. It got a salmonella type infection and was dead 2 days later. What maggots pick up and carry from chickens can easily be passed to wild birds.

Which brings me to somehting John Chap said, about biodiversity and fish passing on sickness to birds. As far as I know, fish do not pass diseases to birds. In fact, it's usually birds being lethal for fish by eutrophifying the water. Also, banning angling does not lead to a loss of biodiversity, because overstocked ponds soon reach equilibrium as there is no annual restocking to prop up numbers. In fact, stocking with fish (which are usually of an exotic species such as carp (foreign) or barbel - a river fish) is bad for wildlife, as they eat all the nymphs, tadpoles etc. So species like newts get wiped out. Water quality usually decreases aswell, as all that unused bait and fish poo from too many fish rots on the bottom.

as someone who is involved with the running of a small Club Lake we have found that we have no shortage of invertibrate life. We have an incredible amount of amphibians. And now have a resident Kingfisher.
Stu

 

[Perry Grin]

many thanks for your input Poecile, It seems you learn something new everyday.

As i frequently feed birds maggotts I am now distruaght that I have killed so many birds, especially since my love for birding goes back to when I was 7 years old (actually the same amount of time as my love for angling)

I now must change my method of feeding as i feed hundreds of starlings everyday along with all the other garden birds (never seen one dead in my garden by food poisoning though..)

Many thanks

My understanding of the Salmonella issue that there is a risk, but a very small one. The maggot industry is heavily regulated and farms have really 'cleaned' up their act. That said, there is a risk.

 

[KnockerNorton]

My understanding of the Salmonella issue that there is a risk, but a very small one. The maggot industry is heavily regulated and farms have really 'cleaned' up their act. That said, there is a risk.

well that info is more up to date than mine, so cheers.

part-timer - it will all depend on your stocking levels and species I suppsoe. To keep your amphibs, you have to have areas where the fish can't get at them. As most fisheries are businesses interested in maximising catches and therefore profit, they wont all give a stuff about amphibians and dragonflies, and the water will have plenty of species.

 

[Perry Grin]

well that info is more up to date than mine, so cheers. QUOTE]

Still, I think the general advice is not to feed maggots to birds at feeding stations etc. There is always a chance of Salmonella and the like at feeding stations as it is. Feeding maggots as well just adds to that risk.

The odd one thrown to the robin will you are fishing is fine I reckon, they always hang around for a free feed.

 

[John Cantelo]

As has already been observed the RSPB has - and must have - a different set of priorities than a group of anglers. If, for whatever reason, the presence of anglers significantly disturbs birds, reduces successful breeding etc., then the RSPB has an obligation to reduce the presence of anglers. If they didn't then they wouldn't be spending their members' money as they should. However, I'm equally sure that if the situation isn't clear cut the society would be happy to pursue a more relaxed approach.

It should also be noted that waters controlled by anglers are often a positive asset to the diversity & health of local wildlife. Lakes that might otherwise be infested by walkers, sailors, waterski-ers etc., etc are preserved and protected. At one fishing lake I know the management committee carefully manage the area to encourage orchids, etc., etc.,

John

 

[alan_rymer]

well that info is more up to date than mine, so cheers.

part-timer - it will all depend on your stocking levels and species I suppsoe. To keep your amphibs, you have to have areas where the fish can't get at them. As most fisheries are businesses interested in maximising catches and therefore profit, they wont all give a stuff about amphibians and dragonflies, and the water will have plenty of species.

Actually, most fisheries are not business's, but clubs, owned and run by their memberships. Although some landowners do run them as business's.
If its a river system, these tend not to be stocked, as fish move from one clubs owned or leased stretch of water to another.
Sitll waters, gravel pits etc are another thing and can get overstocked, but that doesn't last long when Cormorants move in in, any numbers, clubs continually have to put up their prices to restock, otherwise there is no point in leasing or buying a water for fishing. Most anglers have an interest in wildlife and the work they do in keeping river and lake banks fishable benefits everyone including the wildlife. The more invertebrate for fish to eat, the bigger the fish will grow!
I havn't fished for over five years now. But still resent the spread of the "Black plague" into inland waterways where 20 years ago they were never seen, certainly in my area of Berkshire.

As to the subject of this thread. I don't know the water in question, but, angling club volunteers generally do an awful lot of bank maintenance, and pay towards other things which volunteers cannot do.
Its likely that the RSPB,s ban ( if there really is one ) is temporary.

 

[parttimer]

Well said Alan, we have tried hard to encourage wildlife at our club water grass managment, nest boxes and tree planting it not only helps the wildlife but makes it a better place to be. I am just as likley to be found with bins in my hand as i am a rod.
And watching a Barn Owl Quatering the dam bank just after day break was the highlight of last year,not a rod to be seen just bins MAGICAL.

 

[Osprey_watcher]

I used to be an angler, and have had some very magical birding moments while fishing in the early hours of daylight.
But I also witnessed first hand the death of a Pied Wagtail caused by an angler leaving a hook with a maggot attached on the bank.
I've also seen a young Mallard get hooked by taking a maggot that had been cast out.
But I've also had a Canada Goose lay it's head on my foot asking for more maggots.
As for maggots being harmful, I recall reading somewhere that it was the dye used to colour them that was toxic. But that was years ago.
I think there are pro's and cons to whether angling and birding can live side by side.
BTW I stop fishing and resigned from my club when they started calling for a cull on on Cormorants and Goosanders.