Besra, shikra, eurasian sparrowhawk or crested goshawk? (1 Viewer)

[goawildlifeenthusiast]

Bad Image but please try to identify. Alto porvorim, goa August 2014

 

[Deb Burhinus]

It’s not an Eurasian Sparrowhawk (only 5 primaries) and I think Shikra can be ruled out based on structure and streaking on the upper breast - The shape and underwing pattern doesnt fit Crested Goshawk - Besra is possible but the wing shape looks a bit slim and long winged imo so I think an immature Japanese Sparrowhawk on balance (is it really that red or just evening light?) but I am really not sure! I am looking on a really small screen and cant make out much detail tbh. I think you need a more experienced eye on this one. 😗

A date and location would help please! If it was Goa, your own location, then I guess I would come down in favour of a Besra.

 

[tconzemi]

no comment on Asian raptors, but this may help

 

[goawildlifeenthusiast]

It’s not an Eurasian Sparrowhawk (only 5 primaries) and I think Shikra can be ruled out based on structure and streaking on the upper breast - The shape and underwing pattern doesnt fit Crested Goshawk - Besra is possible but the wing shape looks a bit slim and long winged imo so I think an immature Japanese Sparrowhawk on balance (is it really that red or just evening light?) but I am really not sure! I am looking on a really small screen and cant make out much detail tbh. I think you need a more experienced eye on this one. 😗

A date and location would help please! If it was Goa, your own location, then I guess I would come down in favour of a Besra.

well this was taken in Goa which I should have stated which is why it was almost 100% either of those 4. It was taken in alto porvorim on august 2014

 

[andyb39]

The problem is that Japanese Sparrowhawk doesn't occur here, and Besra should have tail bands of equal width (I mean the dark bands should be roughly as thick as the light ones). Crested Goshawk usually shows 6 fingers in the hand. So does that leave us with Shikra?

 

[Deb Burhinus]

. So does that leave us with Shikra?

Looking at the larger, lightened image that Tom provided, I agree re the tail bands not good for Besra and that this looks better for Shikra. Strange because on the original, where I was mainly going by structure, I got the impression of a larger, bulkier bird with broader wings than a Shikra and the breast pattern seemed too heavy but one image (darkish) can be deceptive!

 

[goawildlifeenthusiast]

Looking at the larger, lightened image that Tom provided, I agree re the tail bands not good for Besra and that this looks better for Shikra. Strange because on the original, where I was mainly going by structure, I got the impression of a larger, bulkier bird with broader wings than a Shikra and the breast pattern seemed too heavy but one image (darkish) can be deceptive!

Honestly I hope it’s not a shikra because I’ve seen way too many. Are you sure it’s not a besra? Because I don’t see much of a difference in size of the tail bands

 

[goawildlifeenthusiast]

Honestly I hope it’s not a shikra because I’ve seen way too many. Are you sure it’s not a besra? Because I don’t see much of a difference in size of the tail bands

If I am correct however Japanese sparrowhawk may be vagrant but highly unlikely

 

[goawildlifeenthusiast]

Looking at the larger, lightened image that Tom provided, I agree re the tail bands not good for Besra and that this looks better for Shikra. Strange because on the original, where I was mainly going by structure, I got the impression of a larger, bulkier bird with broader wings than a Shikra and the breast pattern seemed too heavy but one image (darkish) can be deceptive!

My argument against shikra was the brown streak under the beak

 

[Deb Burhinus]

. Are you sure it’s not a besra? Because I don’t see much of a difference in size of the tail bands

No, tbh, I am not sure. I did rule Shikra out initially (perhaps too hastily) because I thought the streaking was too heavy, particularly on the flanks which should be clean. However, on the lightened image, it does show a tail pattern better for Shikra (as Andy pointed out) - I’m not sure if this is a variable feature in Besra but afaik, it is not.

Japanese sparrowhawk may be vagrant but highly unlikely

Yes, as qualified by my suggestion in post #1 when I realised this was probably seen in Goa, JS would not be my first choice here even though that was perhaps my initial feeling.

My argument against shikra was the brown streak under the beak

Juvenile Shikra do have a thin gular stripe (but the throat is not very clearly depicted here). It doesn’t have a malar stripe but the contrast between a ‘hooded’ face and whiter throat might give this impression. I’m not sure if this is what you are referring to?

I have to say, it is very difficult IDing this on one image but the tail pattern is the strongest evidence so far for a Shikra over Besra.

I had rather hoped others with more experience would step in here, for some reason I can’t quite put my finger on, I am struggling with this one - It may be very obvious to someone with a fresh eye!

 

[Deb Burhinus]

Is this the only image you have of this btw?