Been buying again - Hensoldt Wetzlar/Zeiss IF 8x30s - after info/thoughts (1 Viewer)

[sammyboy]

Just bought a rather used pair of the above off Ebay for about £70 inc. postage from Germany. The description states that 'the left tube is a bit polluted, the view is a bit affected, but you have full service and a good view'. Depending on how bad this is I'm toying with the idea of getting these sent off to somewhere like Optical Repairs who I believe have an excellent reputation. It will be interesting when I get these to compare them to my more modern 10x32BN Leica roofs to see how these old Porros compare!

The listing also states that these are Nitrogen-filled - how likely is it that the Nitrogen filling will have leaked out by now? Which leads me onto my next question - is there any way of dating these by the serial number or anything? These have a serial number of 892825 - would it be a simple as the '89' being the year of manufacture? They are also marked 'DIENSTGLAS', is that German for military-spec bins or something similar? I know that German military bins seem to have had this stamped on them since at least WW2.

What are your thoughts on their image quality? I read a good review of 8x30s on the Holgermerlitz site but that seemed to relate to an earlier incantation and the latest version of this binocular, my example seems to be in between?

 

[sammyboy]

Btw this is the auction for the binoculars I won, forgot to put it in the original post!

Found another review on Holgermerlitz's site that appears to have my model in it - looks like I have the Hensoldt Fero D12 model?

 

[SteveF]

Hi.

Searching in Google, the best translation that I could get for dienstglas was 'service glass'.

In the Holger Merlitz website page, on that binocular, it states, "The fully rubber armored version appeared in 1959 and remained in production until 1963." That is consistent with what I've read mentioned in one or two other websites that I can't now recall. I don't know if it was designated D12.

I have one of these Hensoldt binoculars, bought several years ago from Deutsche Optik, in the U.S. Your auction page's images look identical to mine. Mine had scratches on the lenses, but I'm pretty sure that the images were not greatly affected by them. As far as image quality compared to other 8x30s, in my opinion, it is very good, with these characteristics: very good sharpness/resolution, but a little bit less than top-level porros like the Nikon 8x32 SE and 8x30 EII; slight yellow bias; area of sharpness out to about 60% from center; and a bit less than average in contrast (consequently, colors are not as bright or saturated). I think that they were very good for their time, but now a bit behind modern models. Possibly, the servicing that you're considering can improve the image quality.

 

[etudiant]

Hi
Dienstglas is just the designation for "government issue", so it is used for many different types of binoculars.
Your model is probably a D16, as the D12 was a Steiner design with a composite case that has sloped shoulders, unlike your glass.
The serial number may in fact be a Zeiss serial number and they would tell you the year it was made if you give them that number. Renzo de Vries on this forum knows more about Zeiss serial numbers than anyone outside of Zeiss, so he might also be able to help. My guess is that it is a late 70s vintage based on that number, but wait for an expert.

 

[sammyboy]

Thanks for the info and replies!

I think there was a Hensoldt D12 version as well as Steiner, I found some references to it and [url=http://www.army-store24.de/epages/61272940.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61272940/Products/1020]here though these are sales thread and the latter being from the same Ebay store/seller I got mine off. The ones I've bought seem to be between that 1st version made in the 50s/60s and the later D16, pictures of the D16 differ from the pair I've bought also (unless these are an early model D16).

 

[Hermann]

I think there was a Hensoldt D12 version as well as Steiner <snip>
The ones I've bought seem to be between that 1st version made in the 50s/60s and the later D16, pictures of the D16 differ from the pair I've bought also (unless these are an early model D16).

Things are a bit more complicated than that. There was first of all a Zeiss 8x30 Dienstglas with partial rubber armouring made from about 1957-1964. That model had air-spaced objectives and looked quite similar to the civilian Zeiss 8x30 porros of the time, only with individual eyepiece focussing and partial rubber armouring. That model is pretty rare nowadays, I've only seen a couple over the years.

The next model was the Hensoldt 8x30, quite a few of them are still sold on Ebay Germany. It didn't have fold down rubber eyecups, and it had no laser filters. It was produced in rather large numbers from about 1957 to 1963 or 1964. Optically it's pretty good, although many of the specimens sold nowadays are in rather bad condition.

The Steiner 8x30, also known as the Fero-D 12 and produced from about 1966-1972, had a Makrolon body. Optically it was quite clearly inferior to the (older) Hensoldt and the Zeiss. It also wasn't very rugged with quite a few pairs failing in hard use. In short - I feel the Steiner Fero-D 12 was a bit of a lemon.

These first three models are shown on Holger Merlitz website (http://www.holgermerlitz.de/zeiss8x30.html) in a comparison review that sums up their optical and mechanical qualities quite nicely.

The Hensoldt Fero-D 16 was introduced (long with the Fero-D 17, the Fero D-18 and the Fero-D 19) in the 1990s. It's an entirely new model with a new eyepiece design suitable for spectacle wearers and equipped with laser filters. It's also nitrogen-filled. The field of view is rather narrower than that of the Zeiss and the older Hensoldt, but the image quality is very good. In particular, stray light is very well controlled; there are virtually no ghosts at all. However, the image has got an odd, slightly greenish cast because of the laser filters which also seem to adversely affect the contrast somewhat. *Without* the laser filters the contrast is still slightly below the Nikon 8x32 SE, but only slightly. Obviously, Hensoldt used pretty good coatings in these models. Based on a comparison between a Hensoldt Fero-D 18 (with the laser filters and the rangefinder removed) and a Zeiss 7x30BGAT* I personally rate them just slightly below the Zeiss T* coatings introduced in the late 1980s. You'll find photos and comments on that model in Holger Merlitz review (http://www.holgermerlitz.de/kern8x30.html).

If anyone if interested in getting one of these binoculars, I'd recommend getting the Fero-D 16, but only if it is in good condition. Some of the pairs sold on Ebay Germany look as though they've been run over by a truck (or perhaps a tank ... ) In particular, make sure they're not out of alignment (this often indicates that the body itself is damaged) and that the eyepieces aren't stuck. If you've got a really competent repair shop at hand, ask them to take out the rangefinder and the laser filters. This isn't really essential, they're quite nice even with the rangefinder and the laser filters, but it does make a difference to their performance.

Hermann

 

[Kevin Purcell]

Hermann:

I see both Hensoldt and Steiner using the Fero-D<number>. I presume the D is for Dienstglas but the Fero?

Is that a German federal standard name rather like M22, M24, M25 in the US?

 

[sammyboy]

Thanks for the info

I guess these must be an early D16 but looking again at Holgermerlitz's page I do wonder if these are the '60s version. If you look at the pictures from the listing and could help me out there I'd be most grateful! I lose a bit of the FOV with my glasses on but not much. I'll post some pics tomorrow as it's late at night and the light's rubbish at the mo!

I am impressed with the image quality, not up there with my Leicas but I wasn't expecting them to be. They feel very comfortable to hold and I can get get a very steady image with them, they feel very natural to hold, and are possibly the most comfortable binoculars I have held!

I'm considering sending them off to Optical Repairs which I believe have a good reputation to be serviced and re-purged with nitrogen. Not sure whether to ask them to remove the laser filters and reticle or leave them as military spec. There is some light fogging on the left objective prism, and a very slight bit in the right tube but not enough to affect the image quality except the fogging being slightly visible in certain light conditions. The bins are very used, some of the rubber armour is cracking and breaking down a bit and there are no lens covers (they would probably have annoyed me anyway!), but the optics have only slight cleaning marks on them which is what's important.

 

[etudiant]

Fero is just German governmentspeak for Fernrohr, just like the East German binocs were labeled DF for Doppelfernrohr (double telescope = binocular). It covers all optical aids such as rifle scopes and night vision scopes.
The West German Army did use the D designation to label its various different binocular models, with suffixes to specify custom variants.
The old East German DF 7x40, although it gives a yellowish image and is much bulkier than the Fero D 16, is a lot more comfortable glass to look through, maybe because it has greater eye relief.

 

[Hermann]

I see both Hensoldt and Steiner using the Fero-D<number>. I presume the D is for Dienstglas but the Fero?

The list of abbreviations in the official documentation for the troops just says "FERO-D = Doppelfernrohr", so I presume "FERO" stands for "Fernrohr" and "D" for "Doppel".

BTW, there are actually four different models:

FERO-D 16: 8x30 with rangefinder
FERO-D 17: 7x50 without rangefinder
FERO-D 18: 7x50 with rangefinder
FERO-D 19: 10x50 with rangefinder

All four models are equipped with laser filters. The eye-relief is 14.5mm for the 8x30, 18mm for the 7x50, and 15.5mm for the 10x50.

Hermann