ATS 65 versus 80 (1 Viewer)

[Yealm]

I'm still struggling to decide which size to buy !

Was wondering - for those who own both a big and a small/medium scope - when you take one out birding with you, what percentage of times would you estimate that it is the smaller size ? I guess mainly asking people who live in the UK where Winter sun is a rarity!

And do the items below make sense (apart from crazy price!), as suitable (the gold standard?) for either size scope?

Gitzo GT1532 Mountaineer series 1 3 sections carbon tripod
Gitzo GHF2W 2 way fluid head

Many thanks

 

[wllmspd]

Of the group I’ve been out with i think the 65 was more common.

Peter

 

[Mike Crawley]

I’ve had both.
Swapped my 65 or an 80 when I won a 50mm Opticron travel ‘scope.
Early morning or late afternoon winter birding is where the obvious advantage lies (as you suspected)

 

[Yealm]

Cley Spy said they sell about 60% 65mm to 40% 80mm.

 

[Jason Bugay Reyes]

I does a lot of digiscoping so biggest (95mm) the best for me and I have the 65mm ATX too but only when I walked on uphill terrain

 

[ibramr]

Greetings. I have the ATS80 with the 25-50 eyepiece, the older Gitzo 1540GT carbon tripod, and the GHF2W head. I have found this combination to be perfect for hiking/birding activities; and I am talking here about a five mile round trip. Of course, the ATS65 would lighten my load a bit but the difference in weight, 8.2 oz or 238 g, will not be appreciably felt as you are likely also carrying a bottle of water, an apple with some trail-mix, a pair of binoculars, and possibly a camera too. I understand that the view with the ATS65 is excellent for most users except in the last few minutes of the day, but with what I see with the ATS80 in all hours of the day, I am confident that in this case, “less is not more.”

As for the tripod and the head, I strongly recommend a lighter carbon tripod and the GHF2W head. Both—because of their technical attributes—play a very important part in providing an enjoyable visual experience that I always look forward to repeat one walk after the other. Because of their effectiveness, I use the equipment a lot. However, I am sure that the Forum members here can provide you with excellent advice of other equally effective options. Enjoy in good health.

 

[Boogieshrew]

After years of using a variety of size scopes I have found that the limiting factor is not light gathering but atmospheric conditions.
Having used 80/85s, 65s and most recently a 60 it has always been airborne moisture (fog & mist) and heat haze that have spoiled the view not lack of light. And I bird at dawn frequently and on the most overcast of British days.
These conditions limit the magnification not just the quality of the view. If I can see heat haze at 20x then I see no point of cranking up a zoom to 40 or 60. So I am happy with a 15-45x zoom and mostly sticking to the lower half of its range.

I certainly enjoy the lighter weight of a smaller scope and therefore a lighter tripod and I don't feel I miss out by not having a larger scope.

 

[CMB]

We have three scopes: 65mm, 80mm, 88mm. We agree with Boogieshrew that atmospheric condition is usually the limiting factor with scopes.

Our rule for birding is always have at least one scope with us. We have missed some really good birds on a number of outings because we did not bring a scope.

So our suggestion for a first scope (or only scope) is to get a size and weight that you will always be willing to carry with you on every outing (even if it is carried in a backpack).

Our 65mm and 80mm scopes were purchased at the same time and are the same brand. They have high quality fixed power eyepieces that yield the same magnification in each scope. We have extensive experience using the 65mm and 80mm scopes side by side at the same locations under the same conditions.

The 88m scope was purchased later and has a zoom eyepiece. We have used it side by side with both the 65mm and 80mm scopes.

In general…. Both the 80mm and 88mm scopes resolve details better than the 65mm scope. The 88mm resolves details better than the 80mm. The difference is subtle but is noticeable when they are setup side by side. This difference is more noticeable on cloudy days. The increased detail can helpful when you are trying to differentiate between two sub-species (especially when one is rare and one not but they are mixed in the same group) and have to evaluate features like eye color, color around the gape, etc.

But none of that difference in resolving fine detail matters if you decide to leave the scope at home because you feel it is too big and heavy and you just don’t want to deal with the size and or weight that day.

Don’t get caught up in thinking you will always use the higher magnifications of larger scopes. While higher magnification can be helpful, atmospheric conditions often limit the effectiveness/clarity of higher magnifications. It is probably best to think of larger aperature as most helpful for providing increased resolution of fine detail.

The 88mm scope is the setup we reach for first and is with us on almost every outing. I’m wiiling to deal with the weight and size on most outings. We usually also have the 80mm setup in the vehicle with us so both of us have a scope to use.

The 65mm scope (and lighter tripod) is what we take if we are hiking a long distance to a location, or are traveling and have very limited space. We’ll also bring it on a walk if aren’t sure we’ll be using/need a scope that day but want to make sure we have one.

 

[Hermann]

In general…. Both the 80mm and 88mm scopes resolve details better than the 65mm scope. The 88mm resolves details better than the 80mm. The difference is subtle but is noticeable when they are setup side by side. This difference is more noticeable on cloudy days. The increased detail can helpful when you are trying to differentiate between two sub-species (especially when one is rare and one not but they are mixed in the same group) and have to evaluate features like eye color, color around the gape, etc.

Well said. I've got three Nikon Fieldscopes: ED50, EDIIIA and ED82. The difference is quite obvious in a side by side comparison, even at low magnification (20x). Size does matter.

The 65mm scope (and lighter tripod) is what we take if we are hiking a long distance to a location, or are traveling and have very limited space. We’ll also bring it on a walk if aren’t sure we’ll be using/need a scope that day but want to make sure we have one.

That's when I use the tiny ED50. Or sometimes the stabilized Zeiss 20x60S Mono ...

Hermann

 

[wllmspd]

What common fixes power for the 65 and 80mm do you use, I find around 30x is good unless it’s especially dull.

Peter

 

[Boogieshrew]

What common fixes power for the 65 and 80mm do you use, I find around 30x is good unless it’s especially dull.

Peter

The swaro fixed 20x is nice. Very bright but it doesn't have quite enough eye relief for me to see full fov with my glasses on.
I had an astro adapter for my atm65 which was great for opening up a huge choice of eyepieces.

 

[jring]

Hi,

as has been said the difference between the 65mm and 80mm versions is quite negligible when compared to the weight of the whole system including eyepiece, tripod, head and stay-on-case... in fact adding a bit more weight in the form of a scopac or mulepack will help a lot to make it easier to carry for long hikes...

Joachim, who has a main 77mm and a rarely used 60mm scope for the same reasons...

 

[CMB]

What common fixes power for the 65 and 80mm do you use, I find around 30x is good unless it’s especially dull.

Peter

We use fixed power eyepieces that result in about 35x on both the 65mm and 80mm. A lot of the areas we bird have long distances between us and the birds.

 

[Yealm]

Thank you so much- amazing advice from everyone!

I’ve decided to go lightweight- with the new ATC plus the Gitzo Traveller 1 plus fluid head.

And see how I get on. With the view to splurging on an ATS 80 later, if I feel the need

 

[wllmspd]

Enjoy the view and don’t look too far into the distance… there is no limit to the magnification you might feel you need to have…. Which no commercial spotter will even be able to deliver. As has been said many times before the best scope is the one you have on you…. Lighter means it’ll be with you more often.

Peter