Are Bird Hides 'Uncomfortable' Places? (2 Viewers)

[Lawsyd]

This thread might, to some, sound like trolling - it's not meant to be, but if you feel that way, then please accept my apologies.

Anyway, I'm a birder of 25+ years experience, so I'm used to watching birds in public hides & used to the 'protocols' & etiquette that goes with using a hide. My wife of almost 5 years likes looking at birds, but by no stretch of the imagination (although she is far better than she realizes) would she describe herself as a 'birder'. Prior to meeting me she had never been in a public hide.

This afternoon we called in on the main hide of a very popular reserve 'in North West England.' A quick check of the sightings book showed that several avocets, as well as a spoonbill (both year birds for me) were about. Actually in the hide were maybe half a dozen birders (three of whom had scopes). Quite quickly, my wife asked if we could leave the hide & watch the birds from outside. When outside & I asked why she wanted to leave the comparative warmth & comfort of the hide my wife said that she felt uneasy asking me 'simple sounding questions about the birds' in front of 'all those bird watchers with all the proper equipment.' My wife is not unused to being in a public situation (she teaches), nor is she a shy retiring teenager (she is in 'late middle age'), so being with strangers is not normally a problem. Nor were we without 'proper equipment' (not that that has anything to do with anybody else) as we both had binoculars with us & the only bit of my normal birding gear not with us was my own scope.

So, are public hides places that occasional or non birders feel unwelcome & uncomfortable, or was my wife just unlucky today?

 

[Phil Andrews]

I would take a different view - as hides "force" observers into close proximity it is actually a good way to exchange information, knowledge, ID tips etc and therefore can be useful to the less experienced birder, although I can understand how a group of locals, familar with each other and decked out in several grand of optics, could be off-putting.

 

[Johann Sebastian Bach]

I don't mean this in a judgmental or critical way (I'm very English, you see) but isn't this also about your wife being very English? Don't these critical vibes come from within, rather than without?

Peter

 

[Lawsyd]

I don't mean this in a judgmental or critical way (I'm very English, you see) but isn't this also about your wife being very English? Don't these critical vibes come from within, rather than without?

Peter

Maybe, but isn't it also a bit like trying to join a club without a formal membership structure? By that I mean that if you decide, for example, to join the local running club, you will probably contact the club secretary who will then be expecting you at a club meeting &, if the secretary is doing their job properly, will introduce you to other members, as well as being given a copy of the club rules, etc.

However, you decide to take up birding & start visiting locations with hides who is going to tell you 'the rules'? Who is going to tell you not to feel threatened by the guy in the hide with his massive & impressive looking telescope who keeps muttering strange words (godwit; pintail; first winter glaucous; etc) to his companion? Who is going to tell you that 'if in doubt, say nowt' - as we say here in the North? Who, even, is going to tell you that most people in the hide will be only too willing to help you with identification?

As I said, entering a bird hide can feel threatening to a newcomer to birding. Indeed it was interesting today picking up vibes about birding from my wife that I haven't personally felt for almost 30 years. And that's with having me at her side. Imagine how intimidated she might have felt entering the hide on her own?

 

[christineredgate]

I do not like "hides",much prefer to be outside,albeit quite happy to spend a small amount of time on my own in one.I agree,they can be quite daunting,one sometimes feels the need to whisper,sit down quietly,not spread ones gear around etc!!!.Our local hide is sometimes taken over by a birding group who arrive equipped with flasks and sarnies ,and they chatter incessantly re minor sundries,but take up all the viewing space with flasks ,lunchboxes etc,they are defo a must to avoid.If I look into a hide,and it is pretty packed,will go away,would rather be outside.

 

[andm]

i have been birding for 2years now ,after joining local bird club, i ventured into the unknown world of the bird hide,it was a bit daunting at first because after all you are in a small space with strangers, a bit like a dentists waiting room, (maybe not that bad) anyway you soon find most birders are a friendly bunch, and willing to help if asked, but i have met a few birders who dont quite understand why you cant identify all the birds present within minutes, and the clique that totally ignore you ,perhaps they were told not to speak to strangers , i think some birders forget that some of us are new to the game .

 

[Stephen Dunstan]

Maybe, but isn't it also a bit like trying to join a club without a formal membership structure? By that I mean that if you decide, for example, to join the local running club, you will probably contact the club secretary who will then be expecting you at a club meeting &, if the secretary is doing their job properly, will introduce you to other members, as well as being given a copy of the club rules, etc.

However, you decide to take up birding & start visiting locations with hides who is going to tell you 'the rules'? Who is going to tell you not to feel threatened by the guy in the hide with his massive & impressive looking telescope who keeps muttering strange words (godwit; pintail; first winter glaucous; etc) to his companion? Who is going to tell you that 'if in doubt, say nowt' - as we say here in the North? Who, even, is going to tell you that most people in the hide will be only too willing to help you with identification?

As I said, entering a bird hide can feel threatening to a newcomer to birding. Indeed it was interesting today picking up vibes about birding from my wife that I haven't personally felt for almost 30 years. And that's with having me at her side. Imagine how intimidated she might have felt entering the hide on her own?

You can go running without joining a running club, and by the same token you can join bird clubs and go birding with like minded people of a similar level of knowledge.

Some people can be overbearing in hides but most people are actually quite friendly and if you ask them what is about they will happily tell you.

 

[Jeff Hopkins]

It's not just in hides. An equivalent situation is a group birding outing. Somebody new to the group may feel uncomfortable with new people until they spend some time. Although on an outing, they may be formally welcomed and introduced. That works with some, but not with others.

But it all depends on the individual.

 

[Gill Osborne]

The only time I tend to feel a bit 'intimidated' is if I'm somewhere where there's a group of birders (usually male) and they have all these huge telescopes and cameras and there's me with my cheapo scope (£99) from a camera shop and my basic digital camera :-O Most have been REALLY lovely though and let me have a look through their scopes and made me realise just HOW good these are and how clear they are....and make me even more determined to save up and get my own one day :t: It's not the fact that I'm usually the only female in a group of men that 'bothers' me....it's the embarassment of having a crappy scope :-O

I used to be a bit 'shy' of asking what something was but now I'll just ask -99% of birders ARE lovely and will gladly share their knowledge and point things out to you. We were all beginners once.

 

[DavidNB]

Hides in my experience are not very comfy, but further than this I have yet to see in my limited experience of hides one improvement I would like to see.

That is providing within hides some sort of place near the windows where one can mount the sort of gizmo I bought a couple of years ago which purports to be fit over a car window, and on which a scope, or a camera, can be mounted.

It doesn't work very well in my car windows, but it would be easy to use in a hide with a bit of wood placed near the window where the device could be screwed onto.

Putting a tripod up in the hides I have visited restricts the view considerably.

David

 

[trw]

Sounds like you were at Leighton Moss.
I would only go to a hide as a last resort.So if there was a bird I was desparate to see was only viewable from a hide I would have to go.
We are all different but I prefer peace and solitude when out birding.
Seldom find that at Leighton Moss these days.
Clicking cameras,constant chatter, endless comings and goings, and vying for the best spot.
I also find them very frustrating because I cannot get an all round view or a decent overhead view.
Can't remember the last time I was in a hide but I won't be rushing back in a hurry!
There is so much great birdwatching out in the open.Find some good local patches and find your own birds.
Mind you its easier saying that if you have access to the Lake District, Morecambe Bay and Silverdale like I do.
If you live in a large urban area going to somewhere like Leighton Moss makes sense.Its quick and convenient if you have travelled a long way to get there.

 

[dantheman]

Don't use hides very often - probably partly to do with the fact that there aren't so many where I do most of my birding. When in parts of the country with nature reserves that do have hides, find them a great place to take a break from birding and have some lunch/write up some bird sightings etc ...

 

[Mono]

Is there a touch of snobbery and oneupmanship with all these " oh I never go into a bird hide", comments. As if they are not for proper bird watchers. The views one can get from a well placed bird hide are great. If I had a choice of standing in litter strewn car park on Morecambe sea front with a backdrop of a nuclear power station and boarded up shops with a group of waders a 1000yds away or sat in a hide a Leighton Moss in the midst of a range of habitats and very nice cake I know which I would prefer.

Yes there can be jerks in birdhides but there can be anywhere, it's called life.

 

[Sandra (Taylor)]

I would take a different view - as hides "force" observers into close proximity it is actually a good way to exchange information, knowledge, ID tips etc and therefore can be useful to the less experienced birder, although I can understand how a group of locals, familar with each other and decked out in several grand of optics, could be off-putting.

Well put, Phil. I've learnt so much over the years from birders in hides - never had a negative reaction, but I'm never afraid to ask out loud if I think my question can be answered.

S

 

[Adam W]

I never really realised just how much I dislike hides (or maybe just other people) until I had my first trip to Norfolk this year and I really didnt enjoy it all that much considering its often said to be the best place there is for birding. All my previous trips have been to Scotland and it wasnt until I was sat in a hide in Norfolk that I realised I can hardly remember seeing another birder in Scotland (I think i once saw 2 in the hide at Loch Ruthven).
Being in Norfolk made me realise just how much I prefer to be out in the middle of nowhere to being on reserves in hides but that said I realise that says a lot more about me than it does about hides and the other people in them.
So for me personally yes hides are uncomfortable places but I do think thats mainly just because it isnt my cup of tea rather than there actually being anything wrong with hides or people that use them.

 

[Birdman7]

Hides

I always think its preferable to put the welfare of the birds first before the comfort of the human watching them. On the other hand, sometimes an uncomfortable, self-made temporary hide is the only way to great bird photography as I have learned myself through the years.

 

[lewis20126]

In my experience, the hide that seems to bring out the worst out in people is Ivy Lake North hide at Blashford Lakes, Hampshire. The regular wintering bitterns are often only visble in good light* from a side slot that can only be used by two people at a time - not ideal when there are 10 or so in the hide and the two "occupiers" of the key spot are photographers! There is sometimes a mini-queue to get in first when the hides are opened and the tension can be palpable when the bittern is showing (Luckily this year I got my photos early and left! )

cheers, alan

*ie not through the tinted glass at the front of the hide.

 

[Redshank3]

I don't feel that hides are uncomfortable 'socially' and generally found them to be very welcoming when I was starting out birding. That said I think it is down to your own attitude in terms of realising that everyone starts out as a beginner originally and most people are actually friendly!

If anything I would really recommend joining a local bird club or spending time in local hides when starting out. As a teenager from 1996 onwards (until I left the area) I went on many bird club outdoor meetings with the Gwent Ornithological Society. I have nothing but thanks for all the people in the club who were very knowledgeable and willing to show me things, including often allowing me to borrow their scopes to see what they were seeing. I learned a huge amount and was inspired to continue birding and try to become a much better birder. I particularly remember one of the club members who really impressed me with his ability to ID from calls, others who would pick through big flocks to find the rarities within and the people with incredible knowledge of their local patches: All impressed me and I have tried ever since to improve and reach those levels of skill.

Now that I'm older and have my own scope, car and income to allow me to bird easily it is still the memories of these walks that inspire me as I work my local patches. In turn I now try to inspire and help others when I can and will try to show new-comers whats around and let them use my scope when I am in hides.

At worst I agree hides can be off-putting but at best I think hides and the people in them can bring out the best in the hobby.

 

[Lawts]

There are still a few reserves where visitors are few and far between and sometimes being in the hide on your own watching the rain come down and the changing birds and changing light conditions can be a real "with one at nature" experience.

For example on a cold winter afternoon at Buckenham Marshes listening to the Wigeon the hide becomes a wonderful retreat out of the wind. I find such times as great for thinking, which I don't always experience the same whilst walking about on a reserve.

Get tucked in with your flask and the determination of mind not to move until a Hen Harrier turns up - nothing better.:t:

Other times they can present challenges. I can't be doing with people talking loud, glass in front of you, (fortunately not often), people hovering when there's no room to sit, partners - usually blokes confidently putting their other halves right, when in fact the original suggestion was actually nearer to the mark, people not putting you on the rarity when you walk in so you have to ask where it is, hide flaps designed for Ronnie Corbett...

They are certainly changing - when I started in '83 if you so much as got anywhere near putting your hand or scope outside the window you were in trouble - just a no no. Nowadays, myself included all the lenses are hanging outside.

In summary hides yes, people's behaviour in them no.

 

[MJB]

...hide flaps designed for Ronnie Corbett...

Now there's a subject for a new thread!3
MJB