APM 6.5x32 APO - Some first impressions (3 Viewers)

[Hermann]

I got an APM 6.5.x32 APO IF a little more than a week ago. According to Markus the APM is the same binocular as the "Moon Star" discussed in detail on CN last year.

After getting it set up I did some comparisons against my APM 6x30, a recent Habicht 7x42 and (briefly) a Retrovid 7x35. I didn't use it a lot in the field yet. IF binoculars don't really work all that well for birding at this time of the year for obvious reasons. I also ordered a pair with center focusing that should arrive later in the month and will post a detailed review in due course.

Some impressions: The 6.5x32 is larger and more than 100 gr heavier than the APM 6x30, no doubt due to its impressively large eyepieces. In other words: It's not the size of a neat, small 8x30 porro anymore. The eyerelief is larger than in any other binocular I own and should be sufficient for every glasses wearer. In fact, with the rubber eyecups turned down the eyerelief is too much for me. I'm still working on that problem. The build quality seems me to be very good, and the binoculars really look "nice", nicer than their price would suggest. I've seen binoculars costing five time as much with a worse build quality.

Optically the APM 6.5x32 is a clear improvement over the already pretty good APM 6x30: Very high contrast, very high sharpness with excellent resolution, huge sweetspot (about 75-80% of the field of view are perfectly sharp), nice colour reproduction, perhaps a tiny bit warmer than the Habicht, no visible CA at all. It "feels" even wider than the 6x30 with its 9.3. degrees field of view.

In fact, I didn't find anything to complain about, and I can imagine it to become my go-to low magnification binocular.

Final words: This binocular is pretty unique and not a "Chinese knockoff" many people here like to complain about. There is simply no other small porro with a well-corrected large field of view that is suitable for spectacle wearers. None whatsoever.

Hermann

 

[Paultricounty]

I got an APM 6.5.x32 APO IF a little more than a week ago. According to Markus the APM is the same binocular as the "Moon Star" discussed in detail on CN last year.

After getting it set up I did some comparisons against my APM 6x30, a recent Habicht 7x42 and (briefly) a Retrovid 7x35. I didn't use it a lot in the field yet. IF binoculars don't really work all that well for birding at this time of the year for obvious reasons. I also ordered a pair with center focusing that should arrive later in the month and will post a detailed review in due course.

Some impressions: The 6.5x32 is larger and more than 100 gr heavier than the APM 6x30, no doubt due to its impressively large eyepieces. In other words: It's not the size of a neat, small 8x30 porro anymore. The eyerelief is larger than in any other binocular I own and should be sufficient for every glasses wearer. In fact, with the rubber eyecups turned down the eyerelief is too much for me. I'm still working on that problem. The build quality seems me to be very good, and the binoculars really look "nice", nicer than their price would suggest. I've seen binoculars costing five time as much with a worse build quality.

Optically the APM 6.5x32 is a clear improvement over the already pretty good APM 6x30: Very high contrast, very high sharpness with excellent resolution, huge sweetspot (about 75-80% of the field of view are perfectly sharp), nice colour reproduction, perhaps a tiny bit warmer than the Habicht, no visible CA at all. It "feels" even wider than the 6x30 with its 9.3. degrees field of view.

In fact, I didn't find anything to complain about, and I can imagine it to become my go-to low magnification binocular.

Final words: This binocular is pretty unique and not a "Chinese knockoff" many people here like to complain about. There is simply no other small porro with a well-corrected large field of view that is suitable for spectacle wearers. None whatsoever.

Hermann

Herman do you have any side by side pictures of the 6.5x and the 6x APM’s, or the others you compared? In your opinion where does this fit in? If APM already has the compact 6x30 with a 9.3 degree FOV, what is the purpose of the new glass, if it’s bigger and heavier? I’m surprised that for $70 there would be a solid bump up in the optics.

Paul

 

[Hermann]

Herman do you have any side by side pictures of the 6.5x and the 6x APM’s, or the others you compared?

Two quick and dirty shots. Sorry about the dust on the binoculars ... Sometimes that old Micro Nikkor is just too sharp. Please note: The rubber rings around the objective lenses were added by me. I also put some tape around the rubber eyecups. I don't really want to lose them ... Still looking for a better / more permanent solution.

In your opinion where does this fit in? If APM already has the compact 6x30 with a 9.3 degree FOV, what is the purpose of the new glass, if it’s bigger and heavier? I’m surprised that for $70 there would be a solid bump up in the optics.

No idea where it fits in. Optically it's better, and not by a small margin. Let me put it like this: I happily use the 6x30 (in combination with a scope) on my local patch. It's good enough for that. I can easily see myself taking the 6.5x32 on a dedicated birding trip. It's that good. In combination with a scope and a spare pair, of course.

Why Marcus started selling it, and even asking the manufacturer to make it with centre focusing even though he's already got the more than decent 6x30 in his shop? No idea. My impression is he really likes good optics, so he wanted it.

What remains to be seen is how stable the bridge of the version with centre focusing is. After all, the eyepieces are huge and obviously quite heavy.

BTW, in case you didn't notice: There's a new review by Holger Merlitz on a 12x50 Sky Rover / Banner Cloud. Interesting stuff: Review: United Optics 12x50 Sky Rover (Banner Cloud) APO

Hermann

 

[Paultricounty]

Two quick and dirty shots. Sorry about the dust on the binoculars ... Sometimes that old Micro Nikkor is just too sharp. Please note: The rubber rings around the objective lenses were added by me. I also put some tape around the rubber eyecups. I don't really want to lose them ... Still looking for a better / more permanent solution.

No idea where it fits in. Optically it's better, and not by a small margin. Let me put it like this: I happily use the 6x30 (in combination with a scope) on my local patch. It's good enough for that. I can easily see myself taking the 6.5x32 on a dedicated birding trip. It's that good. In combination with a scope and a spare pair, of course.

Why Marcus started selling it, and even asking the manufacturer to make it with centre focusing even though he's already got the more than decent 6x30 in his shop? No idea. My impression is he really likes good optics, so he wanted it.

What remains to be seen is how stable the bridge of the version with centre focusing is. After all, the eyepieces are huge and obviously quite heavy.

BTW, in case you didn't notice: There's a new review by Holger Merlitz on a 12x50 Sky Rover / Banner Cloud. Interesting stuff: Review: United Optics 12x50 Sky Rover (Banner Cloud) APO

Hermann

Thx Herman. They’re huge, looks a bit like the old vintage 7x35 SWA bins from yesteryear. The DOF and 3D effect must be wonderful, and a those large oculars must make it very comfortable with that picture window character. I’d love to try the CF version.

Paul

 

[Boogieshrew]

What remains to be seen is how stable the bridge of the version with centre focusing is. After all, the eyepieces are huge and obviously quite heavy

I really hope the bridge is up to the job. These are intriguing bins. Low mag in a porro with long e/r is very appealing to me. I love a 7x and I love a porro 🤞👍

 

[Patudo]

There's also an 8x32 version, apparently - be interesting to see if it's as good as the 6.5x seems to be.

PS. Thanks for your observations Hermann - you're very familiar with quality binos, and you're an actual birder - that counts for a lot.

 

[Binocollector]

There is simply no other small porro with a well-corrected large field of view that is suitable for spectacle wearers. None whatsoever.

Depends on what is considered "small". The Komz BPO 7x30 works perfectly with glasses if you simply unscrew the rubber eyecups on the modern version (the old one has twist-up eyecups anyway). But it's only 8.5° FoV. Apart from that I'm unaware of another smallish porro with field flatteners.
The Opticron Adventurer porro in 6.5x32 works with glasses for me. But it's not flat field.

 

[iseegeorgesstar]

Thanks for the write up and for the pictures. The CF version looks very interesting.

APM Telescopes. Binocular 32mm

www.apm-telescopes.net

Do you know if the there is a CF version of the 8x coming out as well?

 

[Paultricounty]

Thanks for the write up and for the pictures. The CF version looks very interesting.

APM Telescopes. Binocular 32mm

www.apm-telescopes.net

Do you know if the there is a CF version of the 8x coming out as well?

I’m not sure the pictures on the web are correct. I see on the right prism cover it says 30, not 32.

 

[Binocollector]

I’m not sure the pictures on the web are correct. I see on the right prism cover it says 30, not 32.

The website still shows the wrong pic. It's of the normal 6x30 version that came out a few years ago.

 

[iseegeorgesstar]

Nice catch. On the 8x IF it says "apo" and 6.5x IF it says "apo+". I think the apo+ are supposed to the moonstar variant? Or else it's just a liberal use of terms...

 

[Binocollector]

Nice catch. On the 8x IF it says "apo" and 6.5x IF it says "apo+". I think the apo+ are supposed to the moonstar variant? Or else it's just a liberal use of terms...

AFAIK there are two versions of the older design. The one that was first released as CF in 6x30 by APM (and 8x30 by Orion) was non-ED. And there also was an IF version with ED glass. But from the online reviews there barely seemed to be a difference in optical performance.
The new 6.5x32 has a different ocular design. But I'm not sure what the difference between the Apo and Apo+ is supposed to be.
Edit: this was the older Apo version which AFAIK was only an upgrade to the CF version in 6x/8x30.

Teleskop-Express: TS-Optics 8x30 ED APO Outdoorfernglas - Magnesiumgehäuse-TS8x30MSED

Das MS 8x30 APO Binokular ist ein handliches Outdoorglas und durch die APO Optik bietet das Glas eine bestmögliche Leistung

www.teleskop-express.de

 

[William Lewis]

Thank you for taking the time Hermann, it sounds interesting.

Do you think the trouble finding the correct eye relief is because it's a touch suspectable to kidney beans - as some long eye relief glass can be/used to be?

Also how is the distortion profile- do they show much "rolling ball" or pin cushion distortion?

Thanks again.

Will

 

[Canip]

in 6x30 by APM (and 8x30 by Orion) was non-ED.

The 8x30 had always been ED (see https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/...binoculars-prototypes/?p=9634993#entry9634993)

 

[Hermann]

They’re huge, looks a bit like the old vintage 7x35 SWA bins from yesteryear. The DOF and 3D effect must be wonderful, and a those large oculars must make it very comfortable with that picture window character.

Yes, I think they look a bit like the 7x35 SWA bins of yesteryear. But with modern coatings ... and that makes quite a difference, I think.

There's also an 8x32 version, apparently - be interesting to see if it's as good as the 6.5x seems to be.

PS. Thanks for your observations Hermann - you're very familiar with quality binos, and you're an actual birder - that counts for a lot.

Thank you 🙂 From what I read the 8x32 version isn't quite as good as the 6.5x32. No personal experience though. BTW, here's an image from a Japanese binocular forum showing the different versions of the "Moon Stars": https://livedoor.blogimg.jp/forrest1437/imgs/0/3/038b1df6.jpg.

Depends on what is considered "small". The Komz BPO 7x30 works perfectly with glasses if you simply unscrew the rubber eyecups on the modern version (the old one has twist-up eyecups anyway). But it's only 8.5° FoV. Apart from that I'm unaware of another smallish porro with field flatteners.
The Opticron Adventurer porro in 6.5x32 works with glasses for me. But it's not flat field.

The BPO is quite a big bigger than the APM and of course heavier. And it's got this strong yellow tinge so typical of Russian military binoculars which I find objectionable for birding. Butof course it's very sharp indeed to the edge and probably tougher than most binoculars discussed on this forum. Not sure though it's still in production.

Do you think the trouble finding the correct eye relief is because it's a touch suspectable to kidney beans - as some long eye relief glass can be/used to be?

Also how is the distortion profile- do they show much "rolling ball" or pin cushion distortion?

Finding the correct eye relief is IMO solely a problem of the traditional rubber eyecups. No problem without glasses (I tried, even got out my old contacts to check), but with my glasses the eyerelief is a bit too much (~3mm) when I roll the eyecups down. That's one binocular that would benefit from modern eyecups. They would make the binocular quite a bit bulkier and also more expensive though. I'm sure I'll find some sort of satisfactory solution.

The distortion profile ... I'm probably the wrong person to ask. I'm not susceptible to rolling ball, I don't even see it with the BPO 7x30. The only thing I immediately notice (and don't like) is the moustache shaped distortion of some of the old Swaro roofs. No problem with the APM.

Hermann

 

[Patudo]

I think they look a bit like the 7x35 SWA bins of yesteryear. But with modern coatings ... and that makes quite a difference, I think.

not to mention a larger sweet spot (apparently) and considerably longer eye relief - both are pretty noteworthy IMO. 9.3 degrees for a 6.5 isn't outstanding in itself (Nikon had a 9.3 degree 7x35 back in the day) but coupled with 21mm eye relief, it is. I use my Swift 7x35 without glasses, and that has a certain charm in itself (more immersive view), but without a doubt, once you remove your glasses you lose situational awareness - not ideal if you are birding, as opposed to taking in "the view".

It'd be really interesting to see what Kunming (or whoever) could design in the way of replacement eyepieces that would fit the turrets (is that the correct terminology?) of the old Swifts. Less than 21mm eye relief (which seems almost over-generous) would be fine - I think I could happily live with say 18mm...

PS. "Oberwerk" ought to read your comments below with reference to their "SE"...

The build quality seems me to be very good, and the binoculars really look "nice", nicer than their price would suggest. I've seen binoculars costing five time as much with a worse build quality.

 

[Binocollector]

@Hermann
I think the BPO 7x30 is still in production just taken off the market for obvious reasons. (The website only states "out of stock" - I don't think that means "discontinued" but I could be wrong of course.)
Mine was made 2019. And I have an older version with the twist up eye cups too. Optics are the same though. So UV and part of the blue spectrum is still filtered out, resulting in the yellow "tint".