AMERICAN OR GREAT EGRET (1 Viewer)

[jgtibbs]

I grew up in Florida calling the oft-seen large white wading bird with black legs & yellow beak an American Egret. This agrees with the bird found in my vintage Peterson’s guide. However, this bird appears to now be known as the Great Egret.
Is this the case? If so, I won’t be surprised since over the years I’ve noticed that what I used to call a Louisiana Heron and a Wood Ibis now go by new names. Oh well.

 

[Microtus]

Hi and welcome to the forum, jtgibbs! Yes, what used to be called American Egret is now known as Great Egret. In between it was called Common Egret.

 

[KC Foggin]

Hi there and a warm welcome to you from those of us on staff here at BirdForum

We're glad you found us and thanks for taking a moment to say hello. Please join in wherever you like

And yes also known as Great White Egret

 

[Microtus]

And yes also known as Great White Egret

In the 'old world', not in the Americas

 

[KC Foggin]

It's still used here Microtus.

 

[Microtus]

It's still used here Microtus.

I've never used Great White Egret in this country to refer to Great/Common Egret. As far as I am aware, it's never been the official name.

 

[KC Foggin]

See:

Great White Egret Facts | Ardea alba

As the name suggests, a large, white heron. Great white egrets can look similar to little egrets, but they are much larger, the same size as the grey heron

www.rspb.org.uk

 

[Andy Adcock]

I've never used Great White Egret in this country to refer to Great/Common Egret. As far as I am aware, it's never been the official name.

Until (if) they get split, the species has a circumpolar range, why would anyone call it an American Egret?

 

[Microtus]

See:

Great White Egret Facts | Ardea alba

As the name suggests, a large, white heron. Great white egrets can look similar to little egrets, but they are much larger, the same size as the grey heron

www.rspb.org.uk

That's for the UK, not the USA. The comparison birds are all British/European.

 

[Microtus]

Until (if) they get split, the species has a circumpolar range, why would anyone call it an American Egret?

American Egret was in use before 1957, when the American Ornithologists Union checklist committee changed the name for North America to Common Egret. At some point (possibly 1973, possibly 1982, I don't remember), the AOU checklist committee changed the name again, to Great Egret.

 

[Jack Dawe]

What's the position of the Eastern Great Egret, Ardea (alba) modesta? Isn't that now regarded as a different species?

 

[Butty]

Interesting though... Difficult to see why it was ever called American egret - unless, in those more-insular times, North Americans had the quaint idea that it was all theirs - when in fact it's one of the most widespread birds in the world.

 

[Andy Adcock]

What's the position of the Eastern Great Egret, Ardea (alba) modesta? Isn't that now regarded as a different species?

Cattle Egret is split E/W but not Great AFAIK.

 

[MJB]

What's the position of the Eastern Great Egret, Ardea (alba) modesta? Isn't that now regarded as a different species?

Dong et al 2010 took up this position, but Pratt 2011 reasonably suggested that before splitting alba and modesta, the species limits of the New World taxon egretta should be settled first. As far as I am aware, little has been published on egretta species limits since. On top of that has been the ongoing debate on whether the genus name for egretta and modestus should be Casmerodius or Ardea. Parkin & Knox 2010 noted that molecular data (Sheldon et al 2000) & osteological analysis (McCracken & Sheldon 1998) indicate their closer affinity with Ardea.

I don't know if there have been any more recent studies using other molecular methods or integrative taxonomy.

I should add that in Pratt 2011, Doug Pratt's abstract states: "While the complex may comprise as many as four species, currently available data only support a split of American Egret from Great Egret." Note also this thread from Bird Forum: Great Egret - Egretta or Ardea ?
MJB
Dong, L, J Lei, Y Liu and Q Wei. 2010. The China Bird Report Checklist of Birds of China v1.2. 13 Dec 2010. CBR China Bird list 13 Dec 2010.
McCracken, KG and FH Sheldon. 1998. Molecular and osteological heron phylogenies: sources of incongruence. Auk 115: 127-141.
Parkin, DT and AG Knox. 2010. The Status of Birds in Britain and Ireland. Helm, A&C Black. London, UK.
Pratt, HD. 2011. Observations on species limits in the Great Egret (Ardea alba) complex. J. Heron Biol. & Conserv. 1: 5: www.HeronConservation.org/vol1/art5
Sheldon, FH, CE Jones and KG McCracken. 2000. Relative patterns and rates of evolution in heron nuclear and mitochondrial DNA. Mol. Biol. & Evol. 17: 437-450.

 

[Butty]

integrative taxonomy

What's that? Old-fashioned taxonomy?

 

[Microtus]

Interesting though... Difficult to see why it was ever called American egret - unless, in those more-insular times, North Americans had the quaint idea that it was all theirs - when in fact it's one of the most widespread birds in the world.

Before 1957, each recognized North American (basically USA minus Hawaii & Canada & the Baja Califonia peninsula (don't ask)) subspecies had its own name in the AOU checklists. Species & subspecies were named without much or any regard to what name other English-language checklist authorities gave to the same species. American Egret was called that because the form in question is only found in North, Central, and South America.

 

[Butty]

(don't ask)