A question about Long Tail Tits (1 Viewer)

[Peewit]

Hi there

Can someone give me an insight into the relationship between members of the Tit family

For example are Long Tailed Tits related to Blue Tits in the scheme of things. I understand that Long Tailed Tits are in the family of Bush Tits - does that apply to Blue Tits or does it depend what part of the world you are in?

Love to know more how Tits are related?

Thank you in advance

Regards
Kathy
x

 

[fugl]

Long-tailed Tits & chickadee-type tits are in separate families so are not at all closely related: Aegithalidae (Long-tailed Tit, Bushtit etc) & Paridae (Blue, Great, Coal, Willow, Marsh, Crested etc tits, North American chickadees & titmice).

 

[Shadow-watcher]

Within the family Paridae you have the majority of tits. All fall into one genus Parus, which genetically speaking puts them very close, and potentially able to interbreed.

The blue tit and great tit are extremely closely related. Other chickadees can be divided into a poecile subgenus within the larger parus genus, and even further grouped into clades, ie groups made up of a common ancestor and/or its descendant species. This puts the chickadees in little gang who are either the relatively recent evolutionary offspring of a now extinct species, or contain the species which the other members of the group diverged from and its divergents.

In fact all birds are a clade, as they all evolved from a common anscestor and have no descendants. Reptiles for example are not, because birds evolved from reptiles. A clade is an evolutionary dead end so to speak.

The long tailed tit and its allies, are a member of a different genus Aegithalos, within the family Aegithalidae. A further family called Remizidae contains penduline tits. The Paridae and the Remizidae are believed themselved to be clade, while the Aegithalidae are a more independant family.

So tits and penduline tits are two families who share a common ancestor, but have substantially speciated. The long tailed tits and other Aegithalidae are far more removed, they are cousins to the other two. I hope some of this might make some sense.

Attached is a scientific paper that details the relationship between the three families

 

[MJB]

Hi there

Can someone give me an insight into the relationship between members of the Tit family. For example are Long Tailed Tits related to Blue Tits in the scheme of things. I understand that Long Tailed Tits are in the family of Bush Tits - does that apply to Blue Tits or does it depend what part of the world you are in? Love to know more how Tits are related? Thank you in advance. Regards Kathy x

In addition to shadow-watcher's useful PDF, you might like to visit www.worldbirdnames.org and download the various Excel tables they have of world birds: if you use the 'Find' function, entering say, 'Blue Tit', it will take you directly to the species: the various species on either side of it can be thought of as being the most closley related. It gives you a useful insight of relationships at almost any point in the list, without explaining in detal.
MJB

 

[chris butterworth]

Longtailed-tits ( I always spell it like that so that there is no confusion between them and Paridae ) are closer to Old World Warblers than to Tit's as we normally view them. There are quite a few papers ( albeit rather technical ) on the taxonomic position of both families on the Taxonomy and Nomenclature thread.

You could always try reading!

Nah. Just keep asking us questions. It's far more fun for both of us :t:

.....Or, even better, try keeping them - you might learn something!

Yup. That birds look a damn sight better without bars in the way

Chris