Icelandic or Eurasian Redwing? (1 Viewer)

[Deborah Hanna]

This is my first siting of a Redwing and I'm not sure which it is, Eurasian or Icelandic. I'm in Northern Ireland so I'm presuming Eurasian but just checking. Thanks

 

[Butty]

Note that...
Many Icelandic birds winter in Ireland, and... The major European field guide doesn't attempt to distinguish between those two subspecies.
So, in summary, there's a fair chance that your bird is Icelandic, but your best option (in my opinion) is just to consider it to be 'a redwing' (as I've done with every redwing I've ever seen).
It's very easy, and rarely productive, to get hung up on the idea of identifying birds' subspecies. There are some cases where a) it's possible and b) it tells you something useful/interesting - but, for the great majority of the time... don't bother.

 

[Deborah Hanna]

Thanks for the reply. I just wondered because Merlin mentioned both but that's good to know. Appreciate your advice ☺️

 

[KenM]

This might be of interest Deborah?
coburni are said to be bigger (marginally) and darker, also with heavily streaked
under-tail coverts, quite unlike iliacus.

Cheers

 

[Torchepot]

https://ebird.org/species/redwin1?siteLanguage=en_GB

This may be useful, some good photos showing different angles.

 

[creedence]

https://ebird.org/species/redwin1?siteLanguage=en_GB

This may be useful, some good photos showing different angles.

Attached is a useful comparison of the two Redwing races

 

[Deborah Hanna]

This might be of interest Deborah?
coburni are said to be bigger (marginally) and darker, also with heavily streaked
under-tail coverts, quite unlike iliacus.

Cheers

Great. Thank you. The ones I saw were definitely paler so most likely Eurasian I think

 

[Deborah Hanna]

https://ebird.org/species/redwin1?siteLanguage=en_GB

This may be useful, some good photos showing different angles.

Oooh right. I have no idea then. They are so similar. It's hard to tell from a distance.

 

[Deborah Hanna]

Attached is a useful comparison of the two Redwing races

Thanks for this. The white bar below the eye is more defined on the Eurasian bird and the breast is paler so I'm thinking Eurasian matches my photos best

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

Hello Deborah and all,

thanks for this interesting thread!

And although I agree with Butty´s cautious approach about ssp ID , I am very interested in this and therefore:
From a central european point of view, where Icelandic Redwings are very scarce at best, there where some papers/notes published about (confident) ID of some=the most distinctive/extreme (=not all!) Icelandic birds:

http://www.gavia-ecoresearch.de/ref/pdf/DierschkeJDierschkeV&Schmaljohann2010_OrnJberHelg20.pdf

http://www.nw-ornithologen.de/images/textfiles/charadrius/charadrius52_109_111_Moeller_deVries_MonatsvogelIslaendischeRotdrossel.pdf

Club300 Germany

Club300 Germany

For your bird: as I have yet to see my first confident Icelandic Redwing I can only rely on literature. But I agree with you and all: the whitish supercilium and the lack of markings on the undertail-coverts are bad for an Icelandic Redwing, that can be identified with confidence =(does this mean, it doesnt originate from Iceland? Not necessarily (?)=I think this is what Butty meant???)

And with this approach I have identified these two birds as nominate birds of the ssp iliacus , despite denser, heavier and bolder streaking in one or a more intense-buff supercilium in the other Redwing:

https://flic.kr/p/2pxpfgn

https://flic.kr/p/2pxtPQc

(both Wyk auf Föhr, Germany, 22.02.2010)

 

[Deborah Hanna]

Hello Deborah and all,

thanks for this interesting thread!

And although I agree with Butty´s cautious approach about ssp ID , I am very interested in this and therefore:
From a central european point of view, where Icelandic Redwings are very scarce at best, there where some papers/notes published about (confident) ID of some=the most distinctive/extreme (=not all!) Icelandic birds:

http://www.gavia-ecoresearch.de/ref/pdf/DierschkeJDierschkeV&Schmaljohann2010_OrnJberHelg20.pdf

http://www.nw-ornithologen.de/images/textfiles/charadrius/charadrius52_109_111_Moeller_deVries_MonatsvogelIslaendischeRotdrossel.pdf

Club300 Germany

Club300 Germany

For your bird: as I have yet to see my first confident Icelandic Redwing I can only rely on literature. But I agree with you and all: the whitish supercilium and the lack of markings on the undertail-coverts are bad for an Icelandic Redwing, that can be identified with confidence =(does this mean, it doesnt originate from Iceland? Not necessarily (?)=I think this is what Butty meant???)

And with this approach I have identified these two birds as nominate birds of the ssp iliacus , despite denser, heavier and bolder streaking in one or a more intense-buff supercilium in the other Redwing:

https://flic.kr/p/2pxpfgn

https://flic.kr/p/2pxtPQc

(both Wyk auf Föhr, Germany, 22.02.2010

Hello Deborah and all,

thanks for this interesting thread!

And although I agree with Butty´s cautious approach about ssp ID , I am very interested in this and therefore:
From a central european point of view, where Icelandic Redwings are very scarce at best, there where some papers/notes published about (confident) ID of some=the most distinctive/extreme (=not all!) Icelandic birds:

http://www.gavia-ecoresearch.de/ref/pdf/DierschkeJDierschkeV&Schmaljohann2010_OrnJberHelg20.pdf

http://www.nw-ornithologen.de/images/textfiles/charadrius/charadrius52_109_111_Moeller_deVries_MonatsvogelIslaendischeRotdrossel.pdf

Club300 Germany

Club300 Germany

For your bird: as I have yet to see my first confident Icelandic Redwing I can only rely on literature. But I agree with you and all: the whitish supercilium and the lack of markings on the undertail-coverts are bad for an Icelandic Redwing, that can be identified with confidence =(does this mean, it doesnt originate from Iceland? Not necessarily (?)=I think this is what Butty meant???)

And with this approach I have identified these two birds as nominate birds of the ssp iliacus , despite denser, heavier and bolder streaking in one or a more intense-buff supercilium in the other Redwing:

https://flic.kr/p/2pxpfgn

https://flic.kr/p/2pxtPQc

(both Wyk auf Föhr, Germany, 22.02.2010)

Thank you for taking the time to reply and for all your effort Alexander and others. I really appreciate being able to ask questions as I'm keen to learn. Unfortunately I'll have to get the papers interpreted but I have some good German friends who can help ☺️