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White wagtail or British Pied Wagtail in Switzerland (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Mcnswiss2
- Start date
PaulCountyDurham
Well-known member
Hi Mcnswiss,
Over the last couple of days I've been trying to differentiate a 1st summer female pied wagtail from white wagtails without much luck. I read a few articles including one which was about 5 pages dedicated to wagtails ID. One of the things they said was that white wagtails never have black on the mantle whereas adult pied wagtails do. 'Looks like black on the mantle in your picture to me, or are my eyes deceiving me?
Mcnswiss2
Well-known member
My friend has a paper by Lee Evans on this..when I get a copy I will post..looked like pied to me
MJB
Well-known member
Pied Wagtail also breeds along the French coast of the Channel and so your bird might be from there...
MJB
I think is impossible to say whether this is a Pied Wagtail or not based on these pictures alone. Even though the flanks seem a bit dusky, that is not a really conclusive fieldmark (about 20% of White Wagtails have dusky flanks according to the paper I have linked to below), and the quality of the photographs and lighting certainly don't help. With birds like this you would need to have a really good look at the area between the tertials on the back to back up your claim.
To understand the difficulties, you should probably read this:
www.researchgate.net
The authors suggest that many intermediate birds are likely hybrids or aberrant White Wagtails (in mainland Europe).
Lützen
To understand the difficulties, you should probably read this:
(PDF) White Wagtail and Pied Wagtail: a new look.
PDF | On Jun 1, 2010, Peter Adriaens and others published White Wagtail and Pied Wagtail: a new look. | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate
www.researchgate.net
The authors suggest that many intermediate birds are likely hybrids or aberrant White Wagtails (in mainland Europe).
Lützen
Alexander Stöhr
Well-known member
Hello,
the article by Evans and Cade is here: http://files.biolovision.net/www.fa...THE-SEPARATION-OF-WHITE-AND-PIED-WAGTAILS.pdf
I agree with Lützen, that these pictures are propably not enough to claim a Pied in Switzerland. Please note, that at least a part of the back seems pale grey. What is unusual for a White Wagtail is, that the greater coverts are the deepest possible jet black, not just black like in a White Wagtail (you would choose your bird for a Washing Powder commercial, wouldnt you?).
I posted this before? Otus Bayern e.V.
(I hope a link with a German comment isnt regarded as an offense, it just says that darker birds are regularly seen in Bavaria, but are probably no Pied WT, but just darker albas.)
the article by Evans and Cade is here: http://files.biolovision.net/www.fa...THE-SEPARATION-OF-WHITE-AND-PIED-WAGTAILS.pdf
I agree with Lützen, that these pictures are propably not enough to claim a Pied in Switzerland. Please note, that at least a part of the back seems pale grey. What is unusual for a White Wagtail is, that the greater coverts are the deepest possible jet black, not just black like in a White Wagtail (you would choose your bird for a Washing Powder commercial, wouldnt you?).
I posted this before? Otus Bayern e.V.
(I hope a link with a German comment isnt regarded as an offense, it just says that darker birds are regularly seen in Bavaria, but are probably no Pied WT, but just darker albas.)
