There is no cure for stupid ... (Farallon Islands poison plan) (1 Viewer)

[Ignatius]

What were they thinking?

 

[KC Foggin]

When I read an article on this yesterday they were only talking about a few mice left and nothing was said about dropping any poison on the territory and how many other animals will be killed? That is outrageous !

 

[Farnboro John]

This is exactly what has already been done on Gough Island (where repeat treatment is needed to finish the little beggars off) and I believe other places. If you want rid of invasive aliens - especially ones that cause devastation to other species - you have to remember you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs. Get real.

John

 

[DMW]

This is the unfortunate reality of eradicating invasive rodents on islands. Half-measures don't work.

 

[KC Foggin]

Because of a childhood nightmare action I downright hate rodents. But poisoning other animals is deplorable in my mind and heart.

 

[DMW]

Because of a childhood nightmare action I downright hate rodents. But poisoning other animals is deplorable in my mind and heart.

No right-thinking person takes any satisfaction from killing animals, but it's a sad fact that the only practical solution to eradicating rats and mice from an island is airdropping poisoned bait on an industrial scale. You can't afford to leave even one animal alive. On Gough, the mice have evolved to be the size of small rats, and eat helpless albatross chicks alive. A slow and painful death. Numerous Pacific Island species have been completely wiped-out by introduced rats. I hold no malice towards these rodents, but I fully support their eradication in this way.

 

[jmepler]

The linked article was written with an obvious bias, playing up the poison aspect of the story, while barely touching on the benefits of eradicating the invasive mice. The opening line for example. "A controversial plan to drop nearly 3,000 pounds of poison on San Francisco's Farallon Islands has been approved". From Frequently Asked Questions – Restore the Farallones , "The total amount of rodent bait needed would be about 2,917 lb (1,323 kg), or 1.45 tons. Because the bait contains only a small fraction (0.0025 percent) of rodenticide, this amount of rodent bait contains only 1.16 oz (33g) of brodifacoum, in total. The remainder of the bait is made of cereal grains". So, not 3000 pounds of poison, but just over an ounce of poison in 3000 pounds of grain. The fact that local environmental organizations, including Marin Audubon and the Marin Conservation League, support the Farallon Islands plan was also not mentioned.

You can find a more balanced article here.

If you oppose the use of poison, what would be your solution?

 

[Ignatius]

Let nature take its course. Populations grow and wane with the supply of food. The Americans could have learned that from their idiotic wolf eradication by hunters (who wanted to protect 'their' deer from natural predators so they could kill them themselves) and farmers which led to the expansion of coyotes, which everybody is now whining about. But people always have to fcuk with stuff and then act surprised when the Law Of Unintended Consequences kicks in.

 

[dantheman]

Let nature take its course. Populations grow and wane with the supply of food. The Americans could have learned that from their idiotic wolf eradication by hunters (who wanted to protect 'their' deer from natural predators so they could kill them themselves) and farmers which led to the expansion of coyotes, which everybody is now whining about. But people always have to fcuk with stuff and then act surprised when the Law Of Unintended Consequences kicks in.

Humans have screwed the planet and it's wildlife. Sometimes difficult decisions have to be made to restore the balance and 'manage' what is left. Just leaving it to sort itself out is a cop out - loss of diversity results and suffering of the resident wildlife. Island endemics are especially vulnerable to introduced species.

You can't so easily bring back things once they are lost. The mice, cute and cuddly as they may be to some, are not in danger globally.

The mice were introduced by people. With the rodenticide being in grain and presumably targeted at the rodents the effects on the rest of the ecosystem should be minimal, but would be monitored anyway. These decisions are not taken lightly.

 

[Sangahyando]

This is exactly what has already been done on Gough Island (where repeat treatment is needed to finish the little beggars off) and I believe other places. If you want rid of invasive aliens - especially ones that cause devastation to other species - you have to remember you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs. Get real.

John

Given the success rate of other eradication attempts (or lack thereof), I guess dropping poison bait is still a less invasive measure to get rid of the mice than a sponaneous nuclear test would be...

 

[Mike Crawley]

Given the success rate of other eradication attempts (or lack thereof), I guess dropping poison bait is still a less invasive measure to get rid of the mice than a sponaneous nuclear test would be...

There have been some remarkable success stories too.
Uninhabited islands which are part of the Isles of Scilly archipelago and one inhabited island are now rat free, leading to immediate impact on breeding success of Manx Shearwater.
Rodenticides, are much less toxic to other species (e.g. Lesser White-toothed Shrew on Scilly, Rabbit, etc.)
If this eradicates invasive rats and mice to the benefit of breeding seabirds, it’s unfortunate but an overall benefit for biodiversity

 

[Ignatius]

Of course the vulture deaths in India or formerly in the USA due to DDT or other rodenticides are another success story. Sadly there is no translation for 'verschlimmbessern' as that describes perfectly the human efforts to clean up after their messes.

Btw: it means making something worse while trying to fix it.

 

[James Lowther]

Vulture deaths in India are not due to rodenticide as far as I’m aware?
James

 

[kb57]

Of course the vulture deaths in India or formerly in the USA due to DDT or other rodenticides are another success story. Sadly there is no translation for 'verschlimmbessern' as that describes perfectly the human efforts to clean up after their messes.

Btw: it means making something worse while trying to fix it.

DDT is an organochlorine compound which was used as an insecticide, not a rodenticide. Although it caused massive population crashes in birds of prey in USA and Europe, it did not cause the catastrophic population crash of vultures in India, which was I believe the result of the routine use of diclofenac as a veterinary medicine.
Killing mice on remote islands to prevent extinction of indigenous seabird populations is not making things worse by human intervention, it is fixing a problem which humans caused.

 

[Allen]

Agree with the well written responses above; would be interested to know what the 'outraged' individuals propose as a solution to the problem then.

 

[Ignatius]

If the mere holding of a different opinion from the opinionated here is a form of 'outrage' then so be it.

I see no solution necessary for a non-existent problem. But one can make a problem out of this as so often happens when people have a solution that needs to find one.

NB. Of course kb57 is right. Widely used DDT is culpable for inhibited egg development rather than the killing of adult birds in India, which is indeed due to substances such as diclofenac.

 

[dantheman]

If the mere holding of a different opinion from the opinionated here is a form of 'outrage' then so be it.

I see no solution necessary for a non-existent problem. But one can make a problem out of this as so often happens when people have a solution that needs to find one.

To quote your good self "There is no cure for stupid" and "What were they thinking?"​

How you started this topic on this forum. Comes across as opinionated and outraged to me ... ;-)

Are you even a birder? You read the links above re seabirds breeding on the Fallarones and the problems caused by mice on island populations (and then the owls too as a secondary effect). If you're worried about the suffering* of the mice, that could be a valid stance to take ... but how many creatures have died, directly or indirectly as a result of your stay on this planet? Presume you are a life-long vegan, have never been in a vehicle or bought manufactured goods.

*(measuring suffering of individuals against the suffering of other individuals, or populations always a tricky one. That's why conservation isn't only/at all about fluffy bunny-hugging).

 

[Ignatius]

When I was a young man Greenham Common was outrage, as were demonstrations against Castor transports or Startbahn West or the sinking of the Greenpeace Warrior. But times change and today merely questioning the thinking behind an action and considering it to be stupid is outrage. Whatever. Carry on.

 

[Farnboro John]

When I was a young man Greenham Common was outrage, as were demonstrations against Castor transports or Startbahn West or the sinking of the Greenpeace Warrior. But times change and today merely questioning the thinking behind an action and considering it to be stupid is outrage. Whatever. Carry on.

Greenham Common was never outrage, it was stupid people gulled by Soviet propaganda, and gutless in a peculiarly un-British way to boot. That was especially obvious when the missiles were removed as a result of robust negotiation of arms limitation and the sad misled idiots of the peace camp remained, having nowhere else to go, and tried to find a reason for persisting when clearly there could be none - as well as claiming they had made a difference, which they had not.

John

 

[DMW]

I see no solution necessary for a non-existent problem. But one can make a problem out of this as so often happens when people have a solution that needs to find one.

http://milliondollarmouse.org.nz/files/2015/11/GHAlbatross-mice-injuries.-Photo-by-BenDilley.jpg