Lynx reintroduction in Britain (1 Viewer)

[Farnboro John]

Hi John,

I've read that the existence of pure Wildcats in Britain is debatable, since virtually all specimens show characters of interbreeding with domestic cats. Any thoughts on this?.

This goes round and round once in a while. Some specimens still turn up showing no signs of hybridisation and there is a well argued suggestion in the Mammal Soc Wildcat booklet that hybrids may well be outcompeted by pure bred Wildcats and as a consequence have to maintain themselves in marginal habitats (e.g. in more populated areas) where they are more likely to become roadkill - so that there is a built-in tendency for obtained recent specimens to be hybrids. This is compounded by the legal protection which has removed from the ongoing data any cats eliminated intentionally or as bycatch on shooting estates (which make up most of the best Wildcat habitat) - because to kill them is an offence.

All I can say is that the 2 out of 4 sightings of Wildcats I have had that were close enough to see a full suite of characters showed no signs of hybridisation that I could detect.

John

 

[Carless]

I saw some lynx today, for the first time ever. While they aren't anything like as big as lions or tigers, that's still a nice chunky sized wild animal to have walking around.

And I saw a "Scottish Wildcat" (as it was labelled). I thought it was going to be house cat size, but it would have made a large house cat.

 

[Wildwood]

I was fortunate to follow a wildcat around a few years ago. It was a rehabilitated male (once captive) released onto a friends land up in Speyside. It was interesting to watch it hunt, and in one instance run up a tree with an adult rabbit in its mouth! You may have seen pictures of it in the press such as on the front of BBC Wildlife Magazine, January 2004.

Anyway that friend - Pete Cairns, along with Mark Hamblin, has been running a project for the last few years called Tooth & Claw. It covers all Britains predators and issues surrounding them including discussions of possible reintroductions etc. There is also a book in production which should be published later this year.

A very worthwhile site to visit: http://www.toothandclaw.org.uk/

 

[griffin]

I don't see the point of re-introducing extinct mammal species when we are clearly struggling to protect and ensure the survival of extant wildlife that we still have eg. Scottish Wildcat.

Just ill-informed nostalgic, whimsical romaticism in MHO.

 

[Amarillo]

I don't see the point of re-introducing extinct mammal species when we are clearly struggling to protect and ensure the survival of extant wildlife that we still have eg. Scottish Wildcat.

Just ill-informed nostalgic, whimsical romaticism in MHO.

I agree nostalgia and romanticism certianly plays a part - but there are other factors. Reintroducing charismatic large species like lynx could also benefit the conservation of other wildlife through the creation of large-scale reserves. Not to mention the fact that Scotland is over-run with deer and by reintroducing predators, the balance could be restored somewhat.

 

[jurek]

I think tourism would benefit, and deer damage will be significantly lower.

I'm afraid, however, that educating people will be nightmare. Most people with negative opinion about lynx know nothing about lynx. People think that lynx is size of lion, or that it attacks people etc...

 

[kittykat23uk]

I personally would love to see lynx and wolf reintroduced into the UK following careful study if it is justified. However, I think it's a bit foolish reintroducing predators which require a large area for their territory without first ensuring that that habitat is a) large enough to sustain a healthy population and b) already protected.

 

[griffin]

Not to mention the fact that Scotland is over-run with deer and by reintroducing predators, the balance could be restored somewhat.

That balance could easily be restored - just add homo sapiens plus .243 ! The decision to allow deer numbers to remain high is taken by landowners and estate managers. It is a decision that could be easily reversed and does not need re-introduced predators to achieve it.


Lindsay

 

[Farnboro John]

I've said this before but it bears repeating: there is reason to believe Lynx in particular could have a negative effect on Scottish Wildcat, which is already teetering right on the brink. There should not be a Lynx reintroduction until that is sorted out completely, starting with neutering every cat not held by a licensed breeder.

Griffin is exactly right about deer numbers, animals that big exist in Britain by permission of H. sapiens: other apex predators are not required. However, I should like personally to see Wolves reintroduced. If a bit of misplaced nervousness keeps more humans bottled up in towns the wilderness will be a bit wilder.

John

 

[Amarillo]

I've said this before but it bears repeating: there is reason to believe Lynx in particular could have a negative effect on Scottish Wildcat, which is already teetering right on the brink. There should not be a Lynx reintroduction until that is sorted out completely, starting with neutering every cat not held by a licensed breeder.

Griffin is exactly right about deer numbers, animals that big exist in Britain by permission of H. sapiens: other apex predators are not required. However, I should like personally to see Wolves reintroduced. If a bit of misplaced nervousness keeps more humans bottled up in towns the wilderness will be a bit wilder.

John

Agree with your last sentance and thats what I think the real benefit of introducing large predators is. The large protected areas of wilderness that wolves or lynx would need, will also benefit wildcats and other wildlife.

I don't buy the argument that lynx would be a threat to wildcats at all.

 

[Farnboro John]

I googled Lynx predation on Wildcat and found that although it has been recorded it is not thought at all significant by the experts. It was suggested in a couple of papers that Lynx would have a more profound effect on feral cats (due to absence of "anti-predator behaviour" and camouflaged pelage) which would obviously be a good thing for the Wildcat gene pool, so consider me a convert.

Lets get them in pronto.

John

 

[kittykat23uk]

I just think that if these animals used to live in this country and were exterminated by man and there is enough habitat to reintroduce them successfully, then surely we have a duty to do so?

 

[griffin]

I just think that if these animals used to live in this country and were exterminated by man and there is enough habitat to reintroduce them successfully, then surely we have a duty to do so?

That's right ! And man can then exterminate them all over again, as some think that all things of hooky beak and claw are EVIL.............if they eat grouse ( or RLP's, pheasants and Red Deer, who's numbers are kept inflated for status purposes ).

I would prefer we continued in our (vain) efforts to try to save Scottish Wildcat, Hen Harrier and Golden Eagle, who's numbers in NE Scotland at least are way, way too low rather than complicate things by reintroducing extinct species.

Just a thought.

 

[Isurus]

I would prefer we continued in our (vain) efforts to try to save Scottish Wildcat, Hen Harrier and Golden Eagle, who's numbers in NE Scotland at least are way, way too low rather than complicate things by reintroducing extinct species.

Just a thought.

I'm not sure these are mutually exclusive though. There seems to be a number of wealthy donors with a specific interest in this aspect of conservation who either do not give to the causes you mention or more commonly find that bit of extra cash for this stuff. Since these reintroductions require habitat protection I think we should go full steam ahead. If government conservation funds or one of the major charities are/were diverting funds I'd probably agree with you though.

 

[Isurus]

I googled Lynx predation on Wildcat and found that although it has been recorded it is not thought at all significant by the experts. It was suggested in a couple of papers that Lynx would have a more profound effect on feral cats (due to absence of "anti-predator behaviour" and camouflaged pelage) which would obviously be a good thing for the Wildcat gene pool, so consider me a convert.

Nice to see someone willing to do their own research on a subject and change their mind having considered all the evidence and the consequences. I tip my cap to you sir.

Lets get them in pronto.

John

fair enough, your round or mine? B

 

[rosbifs]

Why is just knowing something is there important? Do we want these animals back for our conscience because we got rid of them in the first place? I restate why bother if these animals are going to be kept in a pen - however sophisticated and large - might just as well have a zoo.

If they can be released 'wild' without restriction then go ahead but think about the motives. Since these things became extinct the world has moved on - particularly number of cars, people using the wilderness for leisure and sport purposes etc. For these reasons the animals will be coming back to a completely different environment.

And just a last thought, based on post above, if we can't look after what we have got what makes us believe we can succeed with these new challenges?

 

[Amarillo]

Why is just knowing something is there important? Do we want these animals back for our conscience because we got rid of them in the first place? I restate why bother if these animals are going to be kept in a pen - however sophisticated and large - might just as well have a zoo.

The proposals to bring these species back in semi-wild conditions are seen as a stepping stone to full reintroduction. I agree there is little value in this if they are not eventually to be fully released.

If they can be released 'wild' without restriction then go ahead but think about the motives. Since these things became extinct the world has moved on - particularly number of cars, people using the wilderness for leisure and sport purposes etc. For these reasons the animals will be coming back to a completely different environment.

The world has moved on, but there is now a trend away from intensive agriculture and re-wilding of large areas which used to be farmed. I think there is more space now for large animals than there has been in the recent past.

And just a last thought, based on post above, if we can't look after what we have got what makes us believe we can succeed with these new challenges?

As I've said before, these new projects will surely help us look after what we've got by providing large areas of pristine habitat.

 

[Farnboro John]

Why is just knowing something is there important? Do we want these animals back for our conscience because we got rid of them in the first place? I restate why bother if these animals are going to be kept in a pen - however sophisticated and large - might just as well have a zoo.

If they can be released 'wild' without restriction then go ahead but think about the motives.
And just a last thought, based on post above, if we can't look after what we have got what makes us believe we can succeed with these new challenges?

Knowing something is there is important because it should matter to us whether something is or is not.

Yes of course we want these animals back due to conscience, what do you think motivates all conservation?

Someone in Africa once said to me that there are no large wild animals in Africa any more, it just depends how far apart the fences are. Just like here, frankly: but saomething is better than nothing.

If you read the preceding posts carefully you would see that one of the premises is that adding Lynx might (science based might) actually benefit one of the animals currently struggling, which should be reason enough to promote the idea. As for can we do it, there have been some successes lately, viz White-tailed Eagle, Osprey - both still suffer persecution but both are undeniably doing well, so there are some grounds for optimism.

John

 

[jurek]

Lynx (which live in parts of France) are actually rather adaptable in some aspects. They can exist close to villages and towns and can live in young and commercial forests.

They need not to be directly killed or poisoned, not too dense network of roads (they are often killed by cars), good population of roe deer or similar species and some shelter - trees or rocks to climb when chased. And then it is OK - in suburbia in Poland, reserve in Germany, rocky steppe in Tibet or forest-tundra in Siberia.

I think large areas of Scotland are suitable now.

Lynx are not a threat for domestic animals. In Poland, lynx predation is well known because government pays compensation for livestock killed. It is like one goat per two years for 200 resident lynx.

why bother if these animals are going to be kept in a pen - however sophisticated and large - might just as well have a zoo.

I agree that Britain is tiny compared to Siberia... but a zoo? Too harsh.

All wild places in Europe (and perhaps Africa too) are fenced in some way. By motorways, farmed land, towns etc. which are barriers just as solid as fence. It is little point to wonder if nature there is 100% wild or 80% wild or less.

 

[jc001]

What a fantastic idea,id love to have wild Lynx here.

But as someones already said,i dont fancy their chances trying to convince the majority of landowners farmers and gamekeepers..although some are doing fantastic things for wildlife ..IMO they wouldnt stand a chance roaming wild with the current levels of ignorance and selfishness among some of these people.
Just my opinion.