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Best tripod for a big Kowa scope? (1 Viewer)

I'm new to this... what does the "counter balancing" feature do on a tripod? Slide rail too? Why would you want or not want these on a big Kowa TSN-99a?
As described earlier to achieve optimum performance and enjoyment - to counteract the scope tipping back or forward.......if it's front or back heavy ( due to the placement of the scope's lens system ) when mounted on the tripod system. Otherwise it will annoyingly tip and require a degree of tensioning. In essence these facilitate finding the correct centre of gravity for balance. Trust us.
You did ask!
 
I'm new to this... what does the "counter balancing" feature do on a tripod? Slide rail too? Why would you want or not want these on a big Kowa TSN-99a?
You want smooth movements in all directions. That’s what a fluid head is supposed to achieve. Also you do not want your scope to tip forward or backwards unless you deliberately point it that way. You have to slide the attachment plate forward or backwards and lock it in position when your scope does not tips neither forward or backwards. In spite of this the scope can still tip if you move away from its balanced position. To prevent that a counterbalance spring is used to keep things under control. On cheaper video heads the counterbalance is fixed and can balance weights up to 4-5 kg range depending on model. On more elaborate (and expensive) heads for professional video work the force can be adjusted.

To properly balance a scope the attachment plate must not be to short. You have to be able to move it in the clamping channel. How long the plate needs to be depends. Hopefully the scope is balanced with the standard eyepiece. Change of eyepiece or attachment of digiscoping/photo gear might require a new balance point.

One issue should be mentioned: attachment of the connection plate to the scope. This is almost always a problem which the manufactures refuse to solve in a good way. The scope works itself loose from the plate.

Firstly, the parts should connect metal to metal. No silly cork or rubber. It only prevents proper attachment of your gear. After long use the cork or rubber may attach to your scope but sooner or later the glue will act as a grease/lubricant. You will notice that the parts no longer are placed where they were attached at the factory.

Secondly. One single attachment screw is not good enough especially If you carry your scope attached to your tripod on your shoulder. It will loosen no matter what. An antirotation pin is only a partial solution. There are only two solutions that I am aware of. 1.: Two screws. Not an option on most scopes, but now with the big Kowa this is possible with the right attachment plate. Thank you Kowa. 2.: A factory mounted foot which is Arca compatible. Swarowski uses such a foot. Unfortunatly the Swarovski design is bad for several reasons, the main objection is that It uses its own version of Arca! If you use it with proper Arca clamps you have no safety catch at all!
Every long lens from Nikon or Canon uses feet which can be replaced. If you do not want the factory feet you can buy Arca replacement feet from Kirk, RRS and others or keep the factory feet and attach a proper Arca plate from many suppliers. Why scope manufactures refuse to give us this flexibility is beyond me.
 
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Lots to research! Thank you all for the help everybody.

For my Kowa TSN-99a, what do you think about the Manfrotto 190 tripod and MVK500AM tripod head?
 
Lots to research! Thank you all for the help everybody.

For my Kowa TSN-99a, what do you think about the Manfrotto 190 tripod and MVK500AM tripod head?
That head is good, I use one but with Swarovski or Gitzo c/f legs rather than a metal alloy. 190 series is the shorter of their range. If you are over 6 feet tall you may need a taller set of legs ( 055 ).
 
For my Kowa TSN-99a, what do you think about the Manfrotto 190 tripod and MVK500AM tripod head?
There have been a few good suggestions here but the Manfrotto 190 is completely inadequate for the Kowa TSN-99. It is so vibration prone that it would likely be difficult to achieve precise focus at the minimum 30x magnification, let alone at 70x with 1/6th the depth of field.
Incidentally, travel (outdoor use) where you are going to be confronted with windy conditions is going to place higher demands on the tripod than for home use, so there is no initial requirement for a second tripod.
Light weight will inevitably compromise stability and for the big Kowa I don't think you are going to achieve adequate stability under 3 kg for a carbon fibre tripod plus head. For an extra kilogram a wooden tripod from Ries or Berlebach would also provide excellent vibration damping with very short decay times.

John

PS:- Take a look at the Tripod Primer and other threads on the Tripod & Heads section.
 
One issue should be mentioned: attachment of the connection plate to the scope. This is almost always a problem which the manufactures refuse to solve in a good way. The scope works itself loose from the plate.

Firstly, the parts should connect metal to metal. No silly cork or rubber. It only prevents proper attachment of your gear. After long use the cork or rubber may attach to your scope but sooner or later the glue will act as a grease/lubricant. You will notice that the parts no longer are placed where they were attached at the factory.

Secondly. One single attachment screw is not good enough especially If you carry your scope attached to your tripod on your shoulder. It will loosen no matter what. An antirotation pin is only a partial solution.
Agree that rubber and cork interfaces should be avoided, but there is a misconception that there are shear loads on the fixing screw (preferably 3/8x16, discarding the thread adapter) and the anti-rotation pin. The compressive load achieved by moderate torque generates so much friction on the interfaces that nothing should come loose. Car wheel bolts or studs are not subjected to shear loads either.

John
 
...

One issue should be mentioned: attachment of the connection plate to the scope. This is almost always a problem which the manufactures refuse to solve in a good way. The scope works itself loose from the plate.

Firstly, the parts should connect metal to metal. No silly cork or rubber. It only prevents proper attachment of your gear. After long use the cork or rubber may attach to your scope but sooner or later the glue will act as a grease/lubricant. You will notice that the parts no longer are placed where they were attached at the factory.

Secondly. One single attachment screw is not good enough especially If you carry your scope attached to your tripod on your shoulder. It will loosen no matter what. An antirotation pin is only a partial solution. There are only two solutions that I am aware of. 1.: Two screws. Not an option on most scopes, but now with the big Kowa this is possible with the right attachment plate. Thank you Kowa. 2.: A factory mounted foot which is Arca compatible. Swarowski uses such a foot. Unfortunatly the Swarovski design is bad for several reasons, the main objection is that It uses its own version of Arca! If you use it with proper Arca clamps you have no safety catch at all!
Every long lens from Nikon or Canon uses feet which can be replaced. If you do not want the factory feet you can buy Arca replacement feet from Kirk, RRS and others or keep the factory feet and attach a proper Arca plate from many suppliers. Why scope manufactures refuse to give us this flexibility is beyond me.
There is a very good third option that completely solves this problem with the plate loosening on the foot. There are plates available on the market that use the standard one screw attachment method but they also have a lip of one kind or another that traps the foot on the plate and prevents rotation. Kirk makes plates with this feature. Others, some less expensive, do as well. There is another thread that explores this in detail. This is the way to go in my opinion. I have a Kirk arca swiss plate with an adjustable lip and it works like a charm on my big Kowa. Also, I have a Canon telephoto with a factory foot that, like the Kowa scopes, is not arca compatible. The solution for my canon lens is to stick on a similar Kirk plate that prevents rotation. If you get the right parts this rotation thing becomes a non-issue. I throw my scope and my camera and long lens over my shoulder all the time. It is rock solid.
 
There is a very good third option that completely solves this problem with the plate loosening on the foot. There are plates available on the market that use the standard one screw attachment method but they also have a lip of one kind or another that traps the foot on the plate and prevents rotation. Kirk makes plates with this feature. Others, some less expensive, do as well. There is another thread that explores this in detail. This is the way to go in my opinion. I have a Kirk arca swiss plate with an adjustable lip and it works like a charm on my big Kowa. Also, I have a Canon telephoto with a factory foot that, like the Kowa scopes, is not arca compatible. The solution for my canon lens is to stick on a similar Kirk plate that prevents rotation. If you get the right parts this rotation thing becomes a non-issue. I throw my scope and my camera and long lens over my shoulder all the time. It is rock solid.
Thanks for the suggestion and I am glad it works for you.

I have tried plates (not Kirk) with a lip. Did not work. I live in Sweden so it is rather expensive to import gear from the US. Costs for freight, custom clearance etc! It may be possible to find a cheap chinese plate from e.g. Sunway.

Still, such a plate should fulfil some basic requirements. There should be a hole for the screw, it usually is a slot, which is not a good idea for obvious reasons. Also metal to metal contact, no rubber.
Anything less may perhaps work, but it really bad engineering. Also a staight lip does not fit all feet. Two separate lips/tabs or adjustable screws a la Manfrotto may be necessary to handle a curved feet.
 
I agree it is a failure for these manufacturers not to standardize a solid way to attach a scope solidly to a tripod. But, it is what it is.

I just will say again that I have been through all these issues with my scope - Kowa 883, and with my long lens and camera body - Canon R6 and Canon RF 100-500. I had many false starts and it was a real pain. You will see the lengthy discussions in a recent thread - might be under the Kowa section? Can't remember. Kirk solved the problems for me 100%. There are others that would work too I am sure.

But, you are right the solution may vary depending on the equipment and the design of the foot. Kirk has many very good solutions for most common equipment and they also have universal type solutions that will work on almost any equipment. You dropped some serious cash on that scope. Might be worth the money to talk to Kirk. They are great people. If they can't help you they will tell you.

Another issue that Kirk helped me with, big time, is the issue of what tripod head to use. Kirk, combined with very good advise from a US photographer who is all over the internet - especially youtub - Hudson Henry, put me on a fluid head arrangement that I love. It works great for my scope and my photographic equipment. The head is an off the shelf Manfrotto 500ah. But, it is modified by replacing the oem top plate and clamp, (which is not arca swiss compatible), with a top plate and clamp manufactured for the 500ah by Kirk, which is arca swiss compatible. Yes, the kirk stuff is a bit pricey, but it is really not too bad. The key though is the the Kirk stuff is very high quality and it works. When you spend the kind of money we all do on scopes and cameras, the last thing you want to do is to cheap out on the tripod connections. We need those connections to be reliable. We don't want our $3-5K scope landing on the pavement. I love this modified fluid head. It is very functional for all I do. I think it might work for you guys too. I would describe it as medium size and weight. Not the best thing maybe for multi week back packing trips in sheep country. Maybe not the best thing for heavy dedicated video production work. But, other than that, it is perfect.

I hope you are able to sort something out.

Rob G.
 
I agree it is a failure for these manufacturers not to standardize a solid way to attach a scope solidly to a tripod. But, it is what it is.

I just will say again that I have been through all these issues with my scope - Kowa 883, and with my long lens and camera body - Canon R6 and Canon RF 100-500. I had many false starts and it was a real pain. You will see the lengthy discussions in a recent thread - might be under the Kowa section? Can't remember. Kirk solved the problems for me 100%. There are others that would work too I am sure.

But, you are right the solution may vary depending on the equipment and the design of the foot. Kirk has many very good solutions for most common equipment and they also have universal type solutions that will work on almost any equipment. You dropped some serious cash on that scope. Might be worth the money to talk to Kirk. They are great people. If they can't help you they will tell you.

Another issue that Kirk helped me with, big time, is the issue of what tripod head to use. Kirk, combined with very good advise from a US photographer who is all over the internet - especially youtub - Hudson Henry, put me on a fluid head arrangement that I love. It works great for my scope and my photographic equipment. The head is an off the shelf Manfrotto 500ah. But, it is modified by replacing the oem top plate and clamp, (which is not arca swiss compatible), with a top plate and clamp manufactured for the 500ah by Kirk, which is arca swiss compatible. Yes, the kirk stuff is a bit pricey, but it is really not too bad. The key though is the the Kirk stuff is very high quality and it works. When you spend the kind of money we all do on scopes and cameras, the last thing you want to do is to cheap out on the tripod connections. We need those connections to be reliable. We don't want our $3-5K scope landing on the pavement. I love this modified fluid head. It is very functional for all I do. I think it might work for you guys too. I would describe it as medium size and weight. Not the best thing maybe for multi week back packing trips in sheep country. Maybe not the best thing for heavy dedicated video production work. But, other than that, it is perfect.

I hope you are able to sort something out.

Rob G.
I have Kirk feet for my 70-200/2.8 lens and also other stuff from Kirk. I agree, it is good gear. I also have clamps, ballkeads, and other gear from RRS, Wimberley, etc. It is all good gear. But it has to fit. I do buy their gear when they do. With photo equipent, no issues whatsoever.
Scopes, however is different story. but as you say , it is what it is.

Do not worry, I will sort this out. With the new Kowa there is no problem. Not with attachment plates, not with filters, not with anything. Bravo Kowa. Maybe Swarovski may learn, but I have my doubts.

But I find it frustrating to seach the net for solutions, buy third-party gear from the other side of the globe, etc. in order to adress an issue that should have been solved by the manufacturers long ago.

P.S. Sirui uses ”Arca”clamps on their smallest video head and also on their tilt head for monopods. Although not proper Arca in all respects, they do work with proper Arca plates if the plates are long enough. This is not the case with some ”Arca” gear from more wellknown manufacturers. That said, proper clamps from RRS, Wimberley, Markins, Kirk etc. are to be prefered.
 
I have used the Sirui VA-5 and the larger one. The problem with the VA-5 is that while arca compatible, it does not allow top loading, only slide in.
 
I have used the Sirui VA-5 and the larger one. The problem with the VA-5 is that while arca compatible, it does not allow top loading, only slide in.
My Sirui tilt head allows top loading, I use it all the time with my 500/4.0 VR. I assumed the VA-5 was the same.
 
My Sirui tilt head allows top loading, I use it all the time with my 500/4.0 VR. I assumed the VA-5 was the same.
To clarify, I enclose a picture of some of my gear. Two lenses with proper Arca feet (from RRS). Markins and RRS ballheads. Both with Arca clamps. A Sirui tilt head on my monopod. Almost proper Arca. The loose not quite Arca plate is from Sirui. I do not use it. Markins and Sirui clamps have safety pins which do not bother as they can be pressed down.

The Gitzo version of an Arca clamp has a fixed screw which has to be removed in order to make it compatible with proper Arca gear. The Gitzo clamp also lacks the milled slots for the safety screw heads which you find on most Arca attachment plates. In my opinion, a truly bad design.

I once bought a Gitzo conversion plate from Gitzo to Arca. Short story: it did not work. Much to tight.

You may object to the rusty screws which fastens the feet for my 500/4.0 lens. Should be replaced by stainless steel ones, and they will, but it shows how things actually look after some use, including a few weeks in rainforests.

I did not know that Kirk made Arca conversion sets for Manfrotto fluid heads, but I am aware of similar products from Acratech and Hejnar. The Manfrotto MVH500 is popular, it is not to expensive and very good for the price. Only drawbacks are bulk and weight. I prefer the Gitzo GHF2W in spite of some drawbacks, simply because of its small size and low weight. The fluid cartridges work very well.

Choice of equipment also seems to be dependent on where you live. E g. when visiting Taiwan I was somewhat amazed that a lot of the local birders we met were using professinal video tripods and heads. Mostly Sachtler or similar stuff.
 

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I have used the Sirui VA-5 and the larger one. The problem with the VA-5 is that while arca compatible, it does not allow top loading, only slide in.
Sorry for the offtopic, but did the VA-5 handle the 883? Is the mvh500 much smoother? These are my current 2 options but i don't like that the mvh is bulky while the VA-5 might not be good for the 883.
 
Sorry for the offtopic, but did the VA-5 handle the 883? Is the mvh500 much smoother? These are my current 2 options but i don't like that the mvh is bulky while the VA-5 might not be good for the 883.
I have a Sirui VA-5, it handles my 80mm Svbony SV406P well. The SV406P weighs 1.6kg, the VA-5 is rated for 3kg and has a fixed 1kg counterweight. If the Kowa 883 with eyepiece is 2kg or under, it should work fine, especially if you are willing to occasionally shift the scope forward/backward a bit if the viewing angle changes a lot - I mainly do this only at night (astronomy). For day use usually the VA-5 is totally fine at the default position, though I still lock it when viewing a perched bird or insect.
 
Hello! I just ordered a Kowa TSN-99a spotting scope. It's big! I am now searching for the best tripod I can get that will complement this new scope. Ease of use, sturdiness, quality are all important. Price is not a concern, however, I am looking for the best tripod, not the most expensive.

Anybody have any recommendations? I was reading a review that mentioned you can get a special mounting plate or something of that nature.

If you are reading this, you are probably wondering "What will you be using this for?". I have a phenomenal view from my home and I also travel, so both of those things.

I'd be curious to know if anybody had recommendations for:

1) Best travel tripod
2) Best tripod for your living room (of course aesthetics are going to have to come into play here, right?

Any thoughts or input are helpful! I'm starting from scratch here and open minded.
Take a look at Berlebach - there tripods are wooden, made in Germany. They have a unique nomenclature. For a scope that size a Report model might suit you best.

They are reasonably priced, compared to carbon options on the market. You’ll find a wide range of color and hardware options as well on their site.

Berlebach made the tripod for the Swarovski ATX Interior. It’s quite elegant.

I have a Berlebach monopod (in camo). I’m very happy with it, and use it for extended sessions with my 8x binoculars. The camo from Berlebach does not look like your typical military or hunting. More like the ”Rebel” uniforms in Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back.

Hope that is helpful. I’m deciding now what scope to get, and a wooden tripod will certainly be on my shopping list.
 
I have a Sirui VA-5, it handles my 80mm Svbony SV406P well. The SV406P weighs 1.6kg, the VA-5 is rated for 3kg and has a fixed 1kg counterweight. If the Kowa 883 with eyepiece is 2kg or under, it should work fine, especially if you are willing to occasionally shift the scope forward/backward a bit if the viewing angle changes a lot - I mainly do this only at night (astronomy). For day use usually the VA-5 is totally fine at the default position, though I still lock it when viewing a perched bird or insect.
Just saw this. I think the VA-5 is adequate for the Kowa 883. I find it a bit fiddly as far as locking it off and adjusting tension for tilt and pan. But, the small size and weight is appreciated if you are hiking a lot with it. The one thing I don't like about it is the fact that you can't top load the plate, which means that my preferred arca swiss plates I use with my primary video head and clamp won't work with it unless I remove the safety screws. The safety screws prevent me from sliding the plate into the VA-5 clamp. I get around this issue for the time being by mounting a Kirk clamp in the VA-5 clamp semi permanently. For my primary heavier legs I use a bigger head - Manfrotto 500AH with a Kirk modified top bridge. That set up is rock solid and it works really well.
 
It seems everyone on this thread is missing one of the KEY mechanical improvements on the Kowa TSN-99 series. In the very thorough review linked below, note the mention of the TWO treaded screw mounts on the foot (shown near the 8:40 mark).

This is the absolute solution to the problem which multiple responders complain about in this post regarding loosening of the mounting screw due to the "lever" effect of a longer objective barrel. Many suggest "No manufacturer has solved this" but they are unaware of the purpose & function of this feature. By utilizing two mounting screws (generally only possible on a longer slotted arca swiss style mounting plates) you gain a rock solid mounting connection that doesn't rattle loose. I carried this on an 8 day birding trip to Costa Rica birding from first light to last daily and left the scope mounted to the tripod the entire time - over the shoulder, in and out of vans, on boats and bumpy roads with vibrations and NEVER had to retighten either screw. So I would argue that the solution has been found and addressed with the new mechanical design with a second threaded screw mount on the Kowa TSN-99 PROMINAR spotting scope actually.
 
It seems everyone on this thread is missing one of the KEY mechanical improvements on the Kowa TSN-99 series. In the very thorough review linked below, note the mention of the TWO treaded screw mounts on the foot (shown near the 8:40 mark).

This is the absolute solution to the problem which multiple responders complain about in this post regarding loosening of the mounting screw due to the "lever" effect of a longer objective barrel. Many suggest "No manufacturer has solved this" but they are unaware of the purpose & function of this feature. By utilizing two mounting screws (generally only possible on a longer slotted arca swiss style mounting plates) you gain a rock solid mounting connection that doesn't rattle loose. I carried this on an 8 day birding trip to Costa Rica birding from first light to last daily and left the scope mounted to the tripod the entire time - over the shoulder, in and out of vans, on boats and bumpy roads with vibrations and NEVER had to retighten either screw. So I would argue that the solution has been found and addressed with the new mechanical design with a second threaded screw mount on the Kowa TSN-99 PROMINAR spotting scope actually.
I agree fully. I use two screws and things stay put. I use a cheap 80 mm long Arca plate from China which in my opinion is long enough for balancing my Kowa 99. The plate is recessed at the bottom so it fits my Gitzo GHF2W head without removing the safety catch screw from the head. Also the Arca plate has no rubber or cork (important) so it is metal to metal as it should be. The scope can only be attached from the top which I prefer.
The screws are quality stainless torx screws so they can be properly tightened with the right tool. Low quality screws or scews made to be tightened by hand or with a coin can not!
 
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