AOU-NACC Proposals 2024 (2 Viewers)

[njlarsen]

Hoping the House Wren split goes through, I have five of the six recommended ones.
Niels

 

[Andy Adcock]

I believe ID is straight forward, and the newly split booby doesn't occur in the Atlantic.

The proposal mentions that range expansion in the Pacific has occurred, with both Brown and "Brewster's" being found in the same colonies to a limited extent, and one of the arguments is that when mixed the boobies mostly don't breed with each other, if I am remembering correctly.

Which one is this then?

Birdwatchers flock for Redcar rare brown booby's visit

The nearest breeding colonies of the brown booby are in the Caribbean and off the African coast.

www.bbc.com

There were two Brown Booby's in the UK last year (at least) and at one point, the one on the Scilly Isles was sharing it's rock with a Red-footed Booby.

Hundreds flock to Isles of Scilly for rare seabird

The red-footed booby has created much excitement in the bird-watching community.

www.bbc.com

Unless you can specifically ID a bird to race, strict listers will not usually count it and on their lists, it will appear as Brown Booby 'sp'. With their eccentric, pelagic wanderings, how do you know it couldn't turn up.

 

[Andy Adcock]

2024-B-13: Revise the taxonomy of the Sharp-shinned Hawk complex: Split mainland Accipiter velox from Caribbean A. striatus

'Caribbean', do they move because Scythebill gives Hispaniola (Haiti and the Dominican Rep) as the range? If they do move around, could both occur in Central America and how the heck would you ID them?

 

[Mysticete]

Which one is this then?

Birdwatchers flock for Redcar rare brown booby's visit

The nearest breeding colonies of the brown booby are in the Caribbean and off the African coast.

www.bbc.com

There were two Brown Booby's in the UK last year (at least) and at one point, the one on the Scilly Isles was sharing it's rock with a Red-footed Booby.

Hundreds flock to Isles of Scilly for rare seabird

The red-footed booby has created much excitement in the bird-watching community.

www.bbc.com

Unless you can specifically ID a bird to race, strict listers will not usually count it and on their lists, it will appear as Brown Booby 'sp'. With their eccentric, pelagic wanderings, how do you know it couldn't turn up.

The second one is definitely an Atlantic, not a Cocos/Brewster's. Juvenile Booby id is far out of my area of expertise and I am at work without the resources to check

 

[Mysticete]

2024-B-13: Revise the taxonomy of the Sharp-shinned Hawk complex: Split mainland Accipiter velox from Caribbean A. striatus

'Caribbean', do they move because Scythebill gives Hispaniola (Haiti and the Dominican Rep) as the range? If they do move around, could both occur in Central America and how the heck would you ID them?

IIRC each island has there own endemic resident subspecies, which are also future splits. The challenge IIRC is that some mainland birds do sometimes pop up in the West Indies, although I assume they must be identifiable for this to be known. At any rate, I wouldn't expect the Caribbean form to ever appear in Central America.

I would imagine that a vagrant Caribbean bird could show up in Florida, but outside of that odd event any bird seen on the mainland is almost certainly the "regular" Sharp-shinned Hawk. At any rate, I wouldn't expect the Caribbean form to ever appear in Central America.

 

[Andy Adcock]

IIRC each island has there own endemic resident subspecies, which are also future splits. The challenge IIRC is that some mainland birds do sometimes pop up in the West Indies, although I assume they must be identifiable for this to be known. At any rate, I wouldn't expect the Caribbean form to ever appear in Central America.

I would imagine that a vagrant Caribbean bird could show up in Florida, but outside of that odd event any bird seen on the mainland is almost certainly the "regular" Sharp-shinned Hawk. At any rate, I wouldn't expect the Caribbean form to ever appear in Central America.

Why not, they have a Caribbean coastline?

As I said, range is given as only Hispaniola but they refer to it as Caribbean so they must wander or they'd call it 'Hispaniolan'?

 

[Farnboro John]

IIRC each island has there own endemic resident subspecies, which are also future splits. The challenge IIRC is that some mainland birds do sometimes pop up in the West Indies, although I assume they must be identifiable for this to be known. At any rate, I wouldn't expect the Caribbean form to ever appear in Central America.

I would imagine that a vagrant Caribbean bird could show up in Florida, but outside of that odd event any bird seen on the mainland is almost certainly the "regular" Sharp-shinned Hawk. At any rate, I wouldn't expect the Caribbean form to ever appear in Central America.

Could be satellite tracked or ringing returns, so not necessarily!

John

 

[raymie]

I believe ID is straight forward, and the newly split booby doesn't occur in the Atlantic.

The proposal mentions that range expansion in the Pacific has occurred, with both Brown and "Brewster's" being found in the same colonies to a limited extent, and one of the arguments is that when mixed the boobies mostly don't breed with each other, if I am remembering correctly.

So where in the Pacific does one see one species, or the other, or both?

 

[Xenospiza]

Why not, they have a Caribbean coastline?

As I said, range is given as only Hispaniola but they refer to it as Caribbean so they must wander or they'd call it 'Hispaniolan'?

The subspecies to be split as Caribean are those on Cuba, Hispaniola and Puerto Rico.

Source: Catanach T et al. 2021.

 

[Andy Adcock]

The subspecies to be split as Caribean are those on Cuba, Hispaniola and Puerto Rico.

Source: Catanach T et al. 2021.

What you describe is three races, not just the one, mentioned above which makes more sense but the info there is obviously incomplete.

venator, Puerta Rico
fringiloides, Cuba
striatus, Hispaniola.

 

[Jacana]

So where in the Pacific does one see one species, or the other, or both?

The recent SACC proposal neatly summarised everything:

Treat Sula brewsteri as a separate species from Brown Booby S. leucogaster (Part A), and if Part A passes, establish English name for Sula brewsteri (Part B)

 

[raymie]

The recent SACC proposal neatly summarised everything:

Treat Sula brewsteri as a separate species from Brown Booby S. leucogaster (Part A), and if Part A passes, establish English name for Sula brewsteri (Part B)

The fact that "Tropical Eastern Pacific Booby" is a proposed common name gives me a strong sense of dread.

 

[awiner]

albicans Isn' on Trinidad according to IOC so what is?

I've just been through all the races on Scythebill and Trinidad, doesn't get a mantion?

T.a. clarus is typically considered the subspecies found on Trinidad. (eBird includes this as part of the range of clarus; IOC omits it.)

 

[awiner]

IIRC each island has there own endemic resident subspecies, which are also future splits. The challenge IIRC is that some mainland birds do sometimes pop up in the West Indies, although I assume they must be identifiable for this to be known. At any rate, I wouldn't expect the Caribbean form to ever appear in Central America.

I would imagine that a vagrant Caribbean bird could show up in Florida, but outside of that odd event any bird seen on the mainland is almost certainly the "regular" Sharp-shinned Hawk. At any rate, I wouldn't expect the Caribbean form to ever appear in Central America.

The Caribbean subspecies (I've only seen Hispaniolan - the Puerto Rican one is critically endangered, and I haven't been to Cuba yet) are very distinctive, with obvious rufous or buffy faces.

Check it out - this is a really distinctive bird:

Hispaniolan Sharp-shinned Hawk (Subspecies Accipiter striatus striatus)

Hispaniolan Sharp-shinned Hawk from Duverge, Dominican Republic on March 11, 2018 at 05:24 PM by Adam Winer

www.inaturalist.org

 

[Andy Adcock]

The Caribbean subspecies (I've only seen Hispaniolan - the Puerto Rican one is critically endangered, and I haven't been to Cuba yet) are very distinctive, with obvious rufous or buffy faces.

Check it out - this is a really distinctive bird:

Hispaniolan Sharp-shinned Hawk (Subspecies Accipiter striatus striatus)

Hispaniolan Sharp-shinned Hawk from Duverge, Dominican Republic on March 11, 2018 at 05:24 PM by Adam Winer

www.inaturalist.org

I wonder if you'd pick it if one of these turned up?

Eurasian Sparrowhawk - Accipiter nisus

Eurasian Sparrowhawk - Accipiter nisus male, identification. picture by Jules Fouarge. Ref:jufo137058

www.oiseaux.net

 

[awiner]

I wonder if you'd pick it if one of these turned up?

Eurasian Sparrowhawk - Accipiter nisus

Eurasian Sparrowhawk - Accipiter nisus male, identification. picture by Jules Fouarge. Ref:jufo137058

www.oiseaux.net

Aside from the mind-boggling odds against finding a Eurasian Sparrowhawk in the extremely limited range of these (there's still no records in the Americas, and if we ever get one it's much more likely to be in the Lesser Antilles than the Greater), I think the typical yellow eye would be a dead giveaway.

 

[david kelly]

Aside from the mind-boggling odds against finding a Eurasian Sparrowhawk in the extremely limited range of these (there's still no records in the Americas, and if we ever get one it's much more likely to be in the Lesser Antilles than the Greater), I think the typical yellow eye would be a dead giveaway.

I recall that Eurasian Sparrowhawk has been recorded in the Americas, albeit in Alaska rather than the Caribbean.

David

Edit: On further checking there are two claims from Adak but were “unsubstantiated”.

 

[Mysticete]

The fact that "Tropical Eastern Pacific Booby" is a proposed common name gives me a strong sense of dread.

That's never been a serious contender. IIRC the NACC is going for Cocos Booby, which complements the existing Nazca Booby; both are named after the geologic plates that correspond to their range.

I never brought it up when I first posted that proposal, but there is some salt to put it lightly about the whole eponym situation in that proposal, that I don't think was needed.

 

[Mysticete]

So where in the Pacific does one see one species, or the other, or both?

I want to say out near Hawaii they have found some mixed in with the Tropical Pacific form (which should probably eventually be split from the Atlantic form eventually).

 

[Andy Adcock]

Aside from the mind-boggling odds against finding a Eurasian Sparrowhawk in the extremely limited range of these (there's still no records in the Americas, and if we ever get one it's much more likely to be in the Lesser Antilles than the Greater), I think the typical yellow eye would be a dead giveaway.

You know I wasn't serious right?