AOU-NACC Proposals 2024 (1 Viewer)

[njlarsen]

Which would probably rule out Kalinago wren.

Depends on whether it is current or historical distribution you think about. As far as I remember, Dominica is the only place with a Kalinago territory today. The Kalinago in St. Vincent were forcibly moved to Roatan from where they moved to Belize, it seems.
Niels

 

[njlarsen]

A dark reddish brown color could be Umber?

 

[l_raty]

From descriptions, martinicensis and gadeloupensis don't really seem to have shared the colour of rufescens...

(A specimen of martinicensis: Multimedia item - RMNH.AVES.110001_0 | Naturalis Bioportal )

(Ridgway described Troglodytes guadeloupensis [Guadeloupe Wren] as duller than T. rufescens [Dominican Wren], and T. martinicensis [Martinique Wren] as still much duller than T. guadeloupensis.)

 

[Mysticete]

Wow...good timing. After discussion of how this forum is dead, NACC just posted there next batch of proposals, with some pretty interesting changes

2024 Proposals - American Ornithological Society

Proposals 2024-A (PDF) 2024-A-1: Reconsider the generic placements of Haplospiza rustica and Acanthidops bairdi 2024-A-2a: Make changes to our classification of the herons (Ardeidae): Modify the linear sequence and existing taxonomic structure within the family 2024-A-2b: Make changes to our...

americanornithology.org

 

[raymie]

Wow...good timing. After discussion of how this forum is dead, NACC just posted there next batch of proposals, with some pretty interesting changes

2024 Proposals - American Ornithological Society

Proposals 2024-A (PDF) 2024-A-1: Reconsider the generic placements of Haplospiza rustica and Acanthidops bairdi 2024-A-2a: Make changes to our classification of the herons (Ardeidae): Modify the linear sequence and existing taxonomic structure within the family 2024-A-2b: Make changes to our...

americanornithology.org

Surprised to see the Herring Gull split there!

 

[Mysticete]

Surprised to see the Herring Gull split there!

Clements I believe is the hold out on that split, so they sort of have to address what with the checklist reconciliation process going on.

Southern and Northern House Wren split should get a ton of birders an armchair tick...both are widespread and pretty easy to see.

 

[raymie]

Clements I believe is the hold out on that split, so they sort of have to address what with the checklist reconciliation process going on.

Southern and Northern House Wren split should get a ton of birders an armchair tick...both are widespread and pretty easy to see.

Including me!

Does anyone know what the range of the new Brown Booby taxa would be? Do the two overlap anywhere?

 

[Andy Adcock]

Clements I believe is the hold out on that split, so they sort of have to address what with the checklist reconciliation process going on.

Southern and Northern House Wren split should get a ton of birders an armchair tick...both are widespread and pretty easy to see.

What's the Southerly limit of Northern?

I've never been North of Florida so I guess all I've seen is Southern.

 

[Mysticete]

What's the Southerly limit of Northern?

I've never been North of Florida so I guess all I've seen is Southern.

The most likely version of the proposal to pass would have Northern range through most of Mexico, with the Yucatan and further south Southern.

Any House Wren you saw in Florida would be Northern, if that is what you are wondering.

 

[Andy Adcock]

Including me!

Does anyone know what the range of the new Brown Booby taxa would be? Do the two overlap anywhere?

luecogaster - Atlantic and Caribbean islands: Fernando de Noronha (ne of ne Brazil), coastal

brewsteri - islands off w Mexico: from c Baja California and Gulf of California (nw Mexico) to

etesiaca - Pacific coasts of Central America and Colombia: Gulf of Fonseca is. (Honduras) to

plotus - Red Sea through Indian Ocean to w, c Pacific Ocean: Red Sea, islands off Somalia

 

[raymie]

What's the Southerly limit of Northern?

I've never been North of Florida so I guess all I've seen is Southern.

If you saw any in Florida they would be Northern. It's a Nearctic-Neotropical split.

 

[raymie]

Luecogaster - Atlantic and Caribbean islands: Fernando de Noronha (ne of ne Brazil), coastal

Brewsteri - islands off w Mexico: from c Baja California and Gulf of California (nw Mexico) to

That's the nesting ranges, but of course boobies wander far at sea.

 

[Andy Adcock]

That's the nesting ranges, but of course boobies wander far at sea.

So true, and this could have ramifications for the British list, the well twitched birds last year will now be 'sp', upsetting a lot of people!

 

[Andy Adcock]

If you saw any in Florida they would be Northern. It's a Nearctic-Neotropical split.

Thanks, where do they become Southern?

 

[pbjosh]

Surprised to see the Herring Gull split there!

They are not even each others sister species or particularly close in the large white headed gulls. Unless you massively reduce the number of recognized species this split is mandatory and the evidence seems basically overwhelming.

 

[Andy Adcock]

What's the Southerly limit of Northern?

I've never been North of Florida so I guess all I've seen is Southern.

Way more involved than just Southern and Northern! Almost every Caribbean Island has it's own species now, one up for me with Grenada but wondering why tobagensis didn't get split?

2024-C-3a: Recognize multiple species within the House Wren Troglodytes aedon complex: Recognize T. musculus as a separate species St Vincent

2024-C-3b: Recognize multiple species within the House Wren Troglodytes aedon complex: Recognize T. brunneicolis as a separate species S, C Mexico

2024-C-3c: Recognize multiple species within the House Wren Troglodytes aedon complex: Recognize T. parkmanii as a separate species sw, sc Canada and w, c USA to n Mexico

2024-C-3d: Recognize multiple species within the House Wren Troglodytes aedon complex: Recognize T. beani as a separate species Cozumel

2024-C-3f: Recognize multiple species within the House Wren Troglodytes aedon complex: Recognize T. guadeloupensis as a separate species Guadaloupe

2024-C-3g: Recognize multiple species within the House Wren Troglodytes aedon complex: Recognize T. rufescens as a separate species Dominica (c Lesser Antilles)

2024-C-3h: Recognize multiple species within the House Wren Troglodytes aedon complex: Recognize T. martinicensis as a separate species Martinique (c Lesser Antilles)

2024-C-3i: Recognize multiple species within the House Wren Troglodytes aedon complex: Recognize T. mesoleucus as a separate species St. Lucia (c Lesser Antilles)

2024-C-3j: Recognize multiple species within the House Wren Troglodytes aedon complex: Recognize T. musicus as a separate species St. Vincent (s Lesser Antilles)

2024-C-3k: Recognize multiple species within the House Wren Troglodytes aedon complex: Recognize T. grenadensis as a separate species Grenada (s Lesser Antilles)

2024-C-3l: Recognize multiple species within the House Wren Troglodytes aedon complex: Recognize T. albicans as a separate species sw Colombia and w Ecuador

 

[awiner]

Way more involved than just Southern and Northern! Almost every Caribbean Island has it's own species now, one up for me with Grenada but wondering why tobagensis didn't get split?

...

2024-C-3l: Recognize multiple species within the House Wren Troglodytes aedon complex: Recognize T. albicans as a separate species sw Colombia and w Ecuador

I was so very confused by the proposal on this point: it doesn't mention tobagensis at all, and its text about albicans is:

(11) albicans—This taxon occurs both on Trinidad and in northern mainland South America

This doesn't match up at all with either eBird or IOC taxonomy. But birdsoftheworld.org has text (left over from HBW, I guess?) which says "T. a. albicans Berlepsch and Taczanowski, 1883. Includes T. a. clarus Berlepsch and Hartert, 1902; T. a. paramaribensis Bangs and Penard, 1918; and T. a. chapmani Stone, 1918". So I imagine the proposal's albicans is in that sense, but also they're talking about just splitting the Trinidad population. At any rate, they recommend against a split, so the question is moot:

"(11) Split Troglodytes albicans of Trinidad.—We recommend a NO vote on splitting the
albicans populations of Trinidad from those on the South American mainland."

(emphasis mine)

Anyway, the important thing is I might no longer have to vociferously whinge about Cozumel and St. Lucia Wrens not being split (these are laughably unlike House Wrens!)

 

[gusasp]

Surprised to see the Herring Gull split there!

Finally! Would have been surprised if it didn't turn up! It's been clear for"ages" that they're not related at all.

 

[Andy Adcock]

...

I was so very confused by the proposal on this point: it doesn't mention tobagensis at all, and its text about albicans is:

(11) albicans—This taxon occurs both on Trinidad and in northern mainland South America

This doesn't match up at all with either eBird or IOC taxonomy. But birdsoftheworld.org has text (left over from HBW, I guess?) which says "T. a. albicans Berlepsch and Taczanowski, 1883. Includes T. a. clarus Berlepsch and Hartert, 1902; T. a. paramaribensis Bangs and Penard, 1918; and T. a. chapmani Stone, 1918". So I imagine the proposal's albicans is in that sense, but also they're talking about just splitting the Trinidad population. At any rate, they recommend against a split, so the question is moot:

"(11) Split Troglodytes albicans of Trinidad.—We recommend a NO vote on splitting the
albicans populations of Trinidad from those on the South American mainland."

(emphasis mine)

Anyway, the important thing is I might no longer have to vociferously whinge about Cozumel and St. Lucia Wrens not being split (these are laughably unlike House Wrens!)

albicans Isn' on Trinidad according to IOC so what is?

I've just been through all the races on Scythebill and Trinidad, doesn't get a mantion?

 

[Mysticete]

So true, and this could have ramifications for the British list, the well twitched birds last year will now be 'sp', upsetting a lot of people!

I believe ID is straight forward, and the newly split booby doesn't occur in the Atlantic.

The proposal mentions that range expansion in the Pacific has occurred, with both Brown and "Brewster's" being found in the same colonies to a limited extent, and one of the arguments is that when mixed the boobies mostly don't breed with each other, if I am remembering correctly.