The Zeiss SFL 8x30 compared with select current 8x30/8x32 roof binoculars (6 Viewers)

[Paultricounty]

Model modern whingers. Sadly Hollywood may be an ideal spot for enabling that, but they'll never escape that extra "g".

🤮I have one word , three letter for Brocks post, WOW!

Do other members here believe the Oberwerk ED (aka SE) is an alpha as well?

 

[Hermann]

• Thotmosis​

  #244 - <snip> Habicht 8x30 may be has a little higher resolution, and E2 8x30 may be a little better contrast

I doubt that. This impression may arise because the Habicht is neutral, the E2 isn't.

• Paultricounty​

  #246 - Swarovski Habicht 7x42 lets me see the edges of the field stop much much better, and I no longer have to press so hard on my glasses. I can see, not only the field stop very comfortably, but also a lot of black outside it, which is very nice with the Habicht 7x42.

The Habicht 7x42 does indeed work surprisingly well with (some) glasses. Better than the 8x30 and the 10x40.

• - And about clarity, E2 has obvious clarity even without any test on the chart, it has a surreal contrast, on of the best "overall image enjoyment"

I find the Habicht beats the E2 in every compartment except for field of view. Easily. That "surreal contrast" is a result of the E2 being, shall we say, "less than colour neutral".

• brocknroller​

  #253 - About glare. I have to confess that this Habicht made a very good initial impression on me regarding the glare (influenced by what I have read before). But as I used it, I noticed that the presence of glare is more frequent compared to other binoculars in the same light conditions. But it appears only in certain conditions and not as serious as in the 8x30 version!

The difference between the Habicht 8x30 and the Habicht 7x42 is huge when it comes to glare, especially veiling glare. The 8x30 is indeed a "glare monster", the 7x42 OTOH is very, very good. There are not that many binoculars that are more glare-resistant than the Habicht 7x42. BTW, the 10x40 is somewhere in-between.

Hermann

 

[Paultricounty]

Put me down as another fan of the E2's. I just sold off my 10x42 EDG in favor of the 10x35 E2. And I picked the 10x42 EDG over the 10x EL and NL's, SF, and UVHD. The E2 show a little more false color but have other things I prefer about them.

Hi Scott , other than the 3D effect and accepting the CA, what other things do you prefer about the E2 over all those other premium alphas you mentioned?

Oh, and if the E2 was the same price as the others mentioned , would you still choose the E2 and pay that much?
thx
Paul

Not too worried about the price differences....that's where things get a little crazy with binos anyway

While we're on the subject of porros, I much prefer my 7x35 Nikon E's to the various 8x30 $1000+ compacts being discussed so much right now as well

 

[Hermann]

🤮I have one word , three letter for Brocks post, WOW!

Do other members here believe the Oberwerk ED (aka SE) is an alpha as well?

To know whether it's an alpha or not there would need be a universally accepted definition of what an alpha is.

Hermann

 

[Paultricounty]

To know whether it's an alpha or not there would need be a universally accepted definition of what an alpha is.

Hermann

😆Herman are you being glib? You mean to tell me that after a thousand discussions using the term we didn’t know what it meant. 😲☹️🙃. That’s almost as ridiculous as me asking if the Oberwerk is an alpha. 🙏🏼

 

[henry link]

I don't know what the term "alpha" is supposed to mean. As it's used here it seems to mean a binocular that is accepted into an exclusive club with no questions asked as long as its label has the proper prestige and the price is high enough. Other binoculars that demonstrate equal or higher optical merit will never be accepted into that club for no reason other than they lack the pedigree.

 

[dorubird]

I doubt that. This impression may arise because the Habicht is neutral, the E2 isn't.

The Habicht 7x42 does indeed work surprisingly well with (some) glasses. Better than the 8x30 and the 10x40.

I find the Habicht beats the E2 in every compartment except for field of view. Easily. That "surreal contrast" is a result of the E2 being, shall we say, "less than colour neutral".

The difference between the Habicht 8x30 and the Habicht 7x42 is huge when it comes to glare, especially veiling glare. The 8x30 is indeed a "glare monster", the 7x42 OTOH is very, very good. There are not that many binoculars that are more glare-resistant than the Habicht 7x42. BTW, the 10x40 is somewhere in-between.

Hermann

I compared the Nikon E2 8x30 with the Habicht 7x42 and it is normal for the Nikon E2 to show me details more easily because they have different magnifications.. But the Habicht 7x42 has advantage when it comes to a certain aesthetic sparkle in the fine details. The colors are warmer and pleasant with Nikon, but Habicht are more accurate! Yes, each one has its own advantages. I don't even have to mention brightness, because we know who is better.
And about Habicht 7x42 glare: I saw in Habicht 7x42 that it is more sensitive to glare than E2 but not very worrying. I know that the 7x42 is the best of the Habicht series when it comes to glare, but it still suffers from glare. It is most noticeable, for example, when looking towards the darkness area near a brighter area. For exemple a heavily shaded forest with a bright sky above. The sky does not enter the FOV, only the forest, so the pupils of my eyes dilate and I receive reflections from the outside of the exit pupil of the binoculars. I have observed this glare countless times with Habicht 7x42. This does not happen to me with the Nikon E2 8x30.
In the end I swapped Nikon E2 8x30 for Habicht 7x42 because I like Habicht image better, and it works better for me. But that doesn't mean I don't recognize his weaknesses. Also I appreciate the fantastic Nikon E2 8X30 as well with all his weaknesses! I have a "power" to like a pair of binoculars, even those with many weaknesses

 

[Scott98]

Hi Scott , other than the 3D effect and accepting the CA, what other things do you prefer about the E2 over all those other premium alphas you mentioned?

Oh, and if the E2 was the same price as the others mentioned , would you still choose the E2 and pay that much?
thx
Paul

What advantage does the 10x35 E2 have over the 10x42 EDG or SF? Lower price, they were only $670 delivered brand new. Contrast and sharpness, and brightness, not better than those but very good. With the new coatings the overall brightness and clarity seems equivalent to the expensive roofs to me. Lower weight for birding while on a neck strap, 21 ounces is the limit for me for multiple hours on a neckstrap. I have 10x56 for astronomy so I don't need the extra aperture of 10x42.

Also easier to hold than longer 10x roofs, there seems to be less shaking. And I love the eyepiece - easy eye placement and lack of blackouts for the small exit pupil - advantage here over the SF's.

FWIW, the false color in the 10x35 is annoying and clearly puts them in a lower class optically, it's got the same false color as the older HG/LXL Nikons. More than the 8x30 E2. No, I'd still choose my 7x42 EDG or 8x42 SF as the primary ones for birding. But when I do break out the 10x for distant birds the 10x35 suits my needs better than another big heavy 42mm. The 10x35 and the 7x35 E give you more aperture than the 32 roofs with the same 21 ounce weight.

 

[Paultricounty]

I don't know what the term "alpha" is supposed to mean. As it's used here it seems to mean a binocular that is accepted into an exclusive club with no questions asked as long as its label has the proper prestige and the price is high enough. Other binoculars that demonstrate equal or higher optical merit will never be accepted into that club for no reason other than they lack the pedigree.

I don’t know anything about exclusive clubs Henry. I was thinking it might be something like the most expensive , highest quality binoculars money can buy, that many people don’t want to spend the money or don’t have the money and will buy lesser optics and say they’re just as good. And that the rest of us who are buying the best are wasting our money 🤪.

If an E2 is just as good as an NL, SF or EDG why buy the more expensive bins.

If we buy an E2 for $550, are we wasting our money for not buying the better optics on the Oberwerks for $239? Etc. etc. on and on.

🙏🏼✌🏼

 

[tenex]

There is a difference between comparison, which is a necessary tool for virtually any sort of reasoning or choice, and ranking, which fails to preserve many of those distinctions and is largely a matter of subjective preference. Improving optical quality in modestly priced bins would have done away with the label "alpha" some time ago if their mechanical construction matched it, which has led the most expensive ones to try to distinguish themselves with increasing complexity that may not even be to everyone's taste, thereby further degrading the term. The result is such a messy situation that one simply has to feel good about buying a particular model because one likes it.

 

[Owlbarred]

I don't know what the term "alpha" is supposed to mean. As it's used here it seems to mean a binocular that is accepted into an exclusive club with no questions asked as long as its label has the proper prestige and the price is high enough. Other binoculars that demonstrate equal or higher optical merit will never be accepted into that club for no reason other than they lack the pedigree.

If your binocular is shipped with a jar of Grey Poupon it's an alpha.

 

[Paskman]

If an E2 is just as good as an NL, SF or EDG why buy the more expensive bins.

Optically they are, however they are not waterproof, have poor eye relief, and fold down rubber eyecups, oir I might have kept mine - I own 2 Swaros and a Leica by the way. Just like everything else in this World, there are people who buy expensive binoculars to show off, just like they buy Ferraris, which lets face it are not able to be used to their full capabilities on an ordinary road. I am, of course, not suggesting that anyone on here woiuld fit that scenario.....

 

[Paultricounty]

Optically they are, however they are not waterproof, have poor eye relief, and fold down rubber eyecups, oir I might have kept mine - I own 2 Swaros and a Leica by the way. Just like everything else in this World, there are people who buy expensive binoculars to show off, just like they buy Ferraris, which lets face it are not able to be used to their full capabilities on an ordinary road. I am, of course, not suggesting that anyone on here woiuld fit that scenario.....

Paskman I’ll assume because E2’s are just as good as the premium options, then you and others who agree with you , sure wouldn’t mind paying a lot more for them, being they bring everything except waterproofing and adjustable eye pieces to the table. What would you say would be a fair price for the E2 alphas, considering they’re underpriced right now? What you say, how about $1500-$1800, were discounting for lack of water proofing. I’m also assuming being you’re not one of those people who would go out and buy the binoculars just to show off, if I were to offer to give you a brand new NL or E2, you would choose the E2, yes?

I don’t think the majority of people buy $2000 to $3000 binoculars to show off, might be a few but I would think that’s a very small number.

 

[pm42]

I don’t think the majority of people buy $2000 to $3000 binoculars to show off, might be a few but I would think that’s a very small number.

It would be strange because nobody notices binoculars AFAIK.

 

[Paultricounty]

It would be strange because nobody notices binoculars AFAIK.

But apparently lots of people notice Ferraris😂🙏

 

[Paskman]

Paskman I’ll assume because E2’s are just as good as the premium options, then you and others who agree with you , sure wouldn’t mind paying a lot more for them, being they bring everything except waterproofing and adjustable eye pieces to the table. What would you say would be a fair price for the E2 alphas, considering they’re underpriced right now? What you say, how about $1500-$1800, were discounting for lack of water proofing. I’m also assuming being you’re not one of those people who would go out and buy the binoculars just to show off, if I were to offer to give you a brand new NL or E2, you would choose the E2, yes?

I don’t think the majority of people buy $2000 to $3000 binoculars to show off, might be a few but I would think that’s a very small number.

But they are the price that they are, why should I pay more?. And yes people do look at binoculars - we even have threads about it on here🙂

 

[Paultricounty]

But they are the price that they are, why should I pay more?. And yes people do look at binoculars - we even have threads about it on here🙂

😂, so you want me to send you the free E2, instead of the NL, correct, that would be your choice? You can’t sell them or trade them , you can only use them. What’s it going to be the , NL832 or the 8x30E2….

🙏🏼✌🏼👊🏻

 

[pm42]

But apparently lots of people notice Ferraris😂🙏

Yes, my point exactly. No girl ever came to me because I have NL Pure around the neck saying "nice binoculars". But I used to drive a Ferrari many years ago and it was another story

 

[Paultricounty]

Yes, my point exactly. No girl ever came to me because I have NL Pure around the neck saying "nice binoculars". But I used to drive a Ferrari many years ago and it was another story

Lol, I hear you on the NL. As far as the Ferrari, she must’ve been French 😂✌🏼

 

[Patudo]

If you could not sell them on, I think some people (a minority, but some) would in fact prefer an EII over a NL, for some of the same reasons you prefer your 7x35s to modern roofs - especially if the latest coatings are as good as Brock says. If you don't need glasses, if you are more a general observer than focused on birding, if you live in a climate where you don't have to worry about fogging etc. sometimes a light 8x30 porro with rubber eyecups can sometimes fit your requirements better than anything else.