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Limburg Netherlands - Flamingo but which one? (1 Viewer)

Bertus

Well-known member
Netherlands
About 9 am this morning in a National Park with a lot of birdspotters or otherwise nature lovers. Just four of them birds present. I add a picture of another observer (pic 4), same time, same place, bit better shot. I wonder if that is the same one as in my picture nr. 2, that is a cut-out of pic. nr. 1. The pink looks stronger. Somewhere I was told that flamingo's only go pink if they eat (pink) shrimps, like at the island of Bonaire (Caribbean). The other observers came to Chilean Flamingo (Pheonicopterus Chilensis) on Waarneming.nl. But also some did not specify the exact species, undefinite... There were no other sightings of these birds on this spot this year, so only today they turned up apparantly. I can't find any map with numbers. Somebody said they are ringed specimens. On my 2nd pic I think there is a ring visible on the leg. I read that there are hybrids of Chilean and Greater Flamingo in the Netherlands. That makes it difficult to ID. Anybody familiar with these species? Tnx for advice...
 

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Hi, I add some more, to get a better idea...
 

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Not an expert on Flamingos, but on the better images there seems to be a grey wedge going down into the black tip of the bill. This seems better for American Flamingo, Chilean should have a straight delimitation between black and grey. Could possibly be some other African or Eurasian species.

Flamingos are supposed to start grey and build up the pink colors as they age if their food has access to the colorings (caroten? ).
Niels
 
I assume it's the same in Limburg, but the flamingoes at Oostvaardersplassen have been a mix of Greater Flamingoes and Chilean for years, and some google search results suggest hybrids also occur. I've some vague memory of reading that some/all of them were coming from a naturalised population in Germany. Others with clearer insight may correct me
 
There are certainly people who know flamingos better than me, but the bird on photo 2 looks like a Chilean Flamingo, with the bill pattern, shortish neck and bright joints of legs. The bird on the photo 4 can also be a pure Chilean flamingo because immatures can show less developed black on the bill (eg. ML377925781 - Chilean Flamingo - Macaulay Library centre).

The caveat is that flamingo flocks in Belgium come mostly from the long-established small feral colony at Zwillbrocker Venn on the German - Dutch border where escaped Greater, Chilean and Carribbean flamingos have been hybridizing for years. I have no idea how well the hybrids are recognizable. These flamingos have potential of genetic pollution of wild Greater Flamingos in southern Europe, because some turned out in Mediterranean colonies e.g. Camargue, but last I heard, weirdly, local authorities strongly oppose re-catching them.
 
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Tnx guys. I had to do research myself and I found some good sites but sorry, so far all in Dutch.


So far I find four species occured in Western Europe and the Netherlands. Chilean, Greater, American/Caribbean and Lesser Flamingo. The Chilean and the Greater are the dominant species, the other two were only found in very small numbers until 2015. Is is thought that Chilean and American were brought here in capitivity and released or escaped, although it still is possible that few of them came over the Atlantic. The other two could have flown here from Africa etc.
The colony on the German border, as Jurek mentioned above, happens to be the only breeding place in North-Western Europe . With a maximum of roughly 50 specimens around April/May. First the Chilean arrived (until 1985), from 1986 the Greater and after 1994 some American. The three species formed a breeding colony together, with some hybrids as a result also, but still most of them are whether Chilean or Greater. The few Lesser F. that arrived near the same place are not part of that and probably do not breed in Western Europe at all.
For example: in a certain year there were 6 pairs of Chilean and 6 pairs of Greater Flamingo breeding, plus one hybrid, in the colony in Germany.

In winter when the colony can't find enough food in the area they fly elsewhere, to several places around Germany, Holland and Belgium or even a few to the other breeding places in France, Spain and Africa. Since 2000 there are more of F. to be found foraging outside the breeding area at German Zwillbrocker Venn , probably because of food abundance elsewhere. In some years no chicks survived due to foxes, but authorities took measures to protect them. All young birds get ringed before they fly out and at least one of the four I photographed yesterday had a ring we think. Big chance these four come from that German border colony I would say.

It is suggested by some that the three Phoenicopterus species here better should be considered as one species, since they are very close related and interbreed occasionally therefore could be too difficult to distinguish from each other. Maybe that is true, although one can find pure specimen of each of the three in their original setting and look for the differences. Hybrides are much harder to distinguish however. Many Dutch observers write down Phoenicopterus indefinite at their obs. For best identification it is best to determine when they fly I read.

However from a useful scheme in https://flamingosinnederland.info/w...eling-determ.-en-naamgeving-bij-flamingos.pdf (in Dutch) I selected following details:

Chilean Flamingo - grey/green legs but yellow in breeding time, red heel joints and feet, beak cream white and black from the nod, shorter neck and legs, body light pink

Great Flamingo - unicolour dark pink legs, joints and feet, beak dark pink with small, black tip, longer neck and legs, mainly white body

The pink colour indeed comes from carotenoids in the food, more precise: Astaxanthine. They go white or grey without that substance. There are unlimited mixes of grey, white, pink and red because of that. Overall there is quite some information and research done on the Flamingo's in Europe.

Based on these details it looks like these probably are four Chilean Flamingo's in both series of photo's. There were only four anyway. In the very first pic there is no pink feet visible, the neck is shorter and the body not white enough for Greater I think. An the beak is by no way as pink as on the pics I find of the Greater F. So I think it is still possible to ID these birds, takes only quite some effort...
 
Anybody can see a reason why they don't catch at least Chilean, Caribbean and hybrids but continue to put rings on them and protect them so they breed further? Wilful promoting of invasive species.
 
Anybody can see a reason why they don't catch at least Chilean, Caribbean and hybrids but continue to put rings on them and protect them so they breed further? Wilful promoting of invasive species.
Hi Jurek, I think that is just what they do at the colony in Zwillbrocker Venn, They catch them, ring them, and make sure no foxes can get there, etc. etc. That is what I read in the sites mentioned above, but in Dutch. However I guess you can find that information also in German and English. The site flamingosinnederland.info is quite good. If you read German, you might have a look at Flamingos: Biologische Station Zwillbrock. But not easy as good as the articles by mr. J M Treep. Maybe they were translated into English or German.
You use the word invasive. Some alien species spread so prolifically that they threaten native biodiversity. These are called invasive species. Do you think these flamingo's are a threat to the native biodiversity then?
 
Do you think these flamingo's are a threat to the native biodiversity then?

Unfortunately, yes. Greater Flamingo native to Europe hybridizes with Chilean and Caribbean both in zoos and in Zvillbrocker Wenn. Flamingos are long-distance nomads and there is exchange of birds between Benelux and Mediterranean colonies. One of proofs was the Mediterranean-ringed Greater Flamingo which was well twitched few years ago in the Netherlands. In the Greater Flamingo breeding colonies in Camargue and elsewhere in the Meds, there were several observations of displaying Chilean Flamingos.

I am not certain about the EU law, but it might formally oblige to prevent establishing of new non-native species also without proving beforehand they are harmful. In any case, it would make common sense.
 
While i have not enough experience with separating non-adult birds and can´t give much help on the original problem,
I think the Zwillbrocker Venn problem is not that large ( but that is personal view) and might be solved with removing Chilean Flamingoes. But with the Zoos I have a real issue here- I think that problem of hybridisation of flamingoes in Zoos is much greater than we realize.

In many Zoos species are kept together (at least ruber, roseus and chilensis) and I have seen obvious hybrids (meaning birds that do not fit to a pure species)...
see this at Hagenbeck Zoo in Hamburg, where they keep American and Chilean flamingo together ( but have the greater Flamingo in a separated enclosure)

The most depressing response I got from Hannover Zoo, where they had kept all three species (roseus, chilensis and ruber) together (today only ruber hybrids in the mix). I asked about the problem of hybridisation at Hannover Zoo
But at Hannover Zoo they denied they have hybrids except for one or two ruber hybrids, and said the Greater and Chilean flamingos do not crossbreed.
But here are some birds to look at:
ruber x chilensis?
roseus x chilensis?
Probable Chilean x Greater flamingo (Phoenicopterus chilensis x Phoenicopterus roseus), Hannover Erlebniszoo, Lower Saxony, Germany, 06-01-22
Probable Chilean x Greater flamingo (Phoenicopterus chilensis x Phoenicopterus roseus), Hannover Erlebniszoo, Lower Saxony, Germany, 06-01-22
Probable Chilean x Greater flamingo (Phoenicopterus chilensis x Phoenicopterus roseus), Hannover Erlebniszoo, Lower Saxony, Germany, 06-01-22
Probable Chilean x Greater flamingo (Phoenicopterus chilensis x Phoenicopterus roseus), Hannover Erlebniszoo, Lower Saxony, Germany, 06-01-22
roseus x ruber?
Probable Cuban x Greater flamingo (Phoenicopterus ruber x Phoenicopterus roseus), Hannover Erlebniszoo, Lower Saxony, Germany, 06-01-22
 

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