anyone ever seen a parrot being predated? (1 Viewer)

[rupicola]

Hi birdypeople,

I'm still lookin for information on parrots being predated in the wild.
As there is very few information available on this subject I will try to
gather as much as I can and use the information to publish an article.
By showing there are much more threats to the parrots in the wild than the well known loss of habitat by human interference and the illegal capturing of wild parrots for the international trade wich already caused 2/3 th of all parrotspecies around the world being declined!, I hope to convince potential buyers to give up buying an imported wild caught parrot and convince them to buy a captive bred parrot instead.

If anyone out there has ever witnessed a parrot being predated by any animal please share your information here!

thank you
Rupicola

 

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Rupicola,

Have you checked Lynx HBW? That includes some details about natural parrot mortality (parrots in Vol. 4).

Michael

 

[Rhion]

Hi birdypeople,

If anyone out there has ever witnessed a parrot being predated by any animal please share your information here!

thank you
Rupicola

Come to think of it, I never have, though I've seen quite a few other birds fall victim to various raptors and once or twice to other beasties. I would imagine that parrots are not very easy targets.

 

[Tanager]

Hi birdypeople,

I'm still lookin for information on parrots being predated in the wild.
As there is very few information available on this subject I will try to
gather as much as I can and use the information to publish an article.
By showing there are much more threats to the parrots in the wild than the better known loss of habitat by human interference and the illegal capturing of wild parrots for the international trade wich already caused 2/3 th of all parrotspecies around the world being declined!, I hope to convince potential buyers to give buying an imported parrot a second thought and convince them to buy a captive bred parrot instead.

If anyone out there has ever witnessed a parrot being predated by any animal please share your information here!

thank you
Rupicola

Hi Rupicola,

While I was in Peru last year a group of people I was with saw a Pacific Parrotlet being consumed by a snake.

Cheers,

Mark

 

[shelley810]

Nature puts the parrots on the same prey list like any other bird that doesn't eat meat.
Here in the US we have importation laws in place...and have had for quite awhile now. All birds here have now been captive bred unless they are in a special classification because they are endangered, and these you won't find in the trade, they are being bred by incredibly responsible people to increase the number of birds left and are not offered for sale for pets. The need for imporation no longer exists since the captive bred parrot population (of just about any kind has increased by leaps and bounds) These breeders take parrot conservation and preservation very very seriously! Hope you are successful, too.
Shelley

 

[Rasmus Boegh]

Here in the US we have importation laws in place...and have had for quite awhile now. All birds here have now been captive bred unless they are in a special classification because they are endangered, and these you won't find in the trade, they are being bred by incredibly responsible people to increase the number of birds left and are not offered for sale for pets. The need for imporation no longer exists since the captive bred parrot population (of just about any kind has increased by leaps and bounds) These breeders take parrot conservation and preservation very very seriously! Hope you are successful, too.
Shelley

Most countries have that sort of law, mostly governed by the CITES listings. The problem obviously is that a few people don't care! That is why birds are confiscated frequently, not at least on the US borders and airports. Without doubt a number make it through without being detected. The problem is that these "illegal birds" often constitue the rarer (endagered) species; exactly those that are the most threatened by such actions (the horror example being Spix's Macaw). Most people working in customs also have a relatively limited knowledge of birds - how would they know the difference between the endangered Hyacinth and the critically endangered Lear's Macaw? This may seem like an unlikely example, but a few years ago a wellknown parrot-keeper was discovered to have two Lear's. It is belived he got them through customs by having papers on a pair of Hyacinth, a species that is rather frequent in captivity. As if this isn't enough, it is also a wellknown fact that in some countries CITES documents are easy to get if you are willing to pay the $$$ and/or have a few contacts. These documents are official and valid for most countries (the US included). It is next to impossible to check if a rare parrot importet from say, Brazil, was indeed breed in captivity "down there" (as claimed by the documents) or actually caught in the wild.
So, even though it may seem like the US (or the EU for that matter) "solved" the problem, that is far from being the truth...

Anyway, back on subject: Rupicola, are you looking for info from all over the World, all genera (not just Pyrrhura)? In any case I'd recommend you checking HBW vol. 2, page 79: Two photos showing an African Goshawk trying to catch a Rueppel's Parrot in full flight. A very close call but the parrot got away.

 

[rupicola]

Come to think of it, I never have, though I've seen quite a few other birds fall victim to various raptors and once or twice to other beasties. I would imagine that parrots are not very easy targets.

you're quite right about this. Under normal conditions an adult parrot in good health, especially those living in groups, won't be caught that easy.
Still there are quite a few predators who will be able to do so.
there are even more predators who select the sick or weak parrots, and very young fledgelings. Last but no least there are all kind of nestpredators active to predate on eggs and/or nestlings.

 

[rupicola]

Hi Rupicola,

While I was in Peru last year a group of people I was with saw a Pacific Parrotlet being consumed by a snake.

Cheers,

Mark

thank you very much Tanager.
could you by any chance recall what species of snake it was or might have been?

 

[rupicola]

Most countries have that sort of law, mostly governed by the CITES listings. The problem obviously is that a few people don't care! That is why birds are confiscated frequently, not at least on the US borders and airports. Without doubt a number make it through without being detected. The problem is that these "illegal birds" often constitue the rarer (endagered) species; exactly those that are the most threatened by such actions (the horror example being Spix's Macaw). Most people working in customs also have a relatively limited knowledge of birds - how would they know the difference between the endangered Hyacinth and the critically endangered Lear's Macaw? This may seem like an unlikely example, but a few years ago a wellknown parrot-keeper was discovered to have two Lear's. It is belived he got them through customs by having papers on a pair of Hyacinth, a species that is rather frequent in captivity. As if this isn't enough, it is also a wellknown fact that in some countries CITES documents are easy to get if you are willing to pay the $$$ and/or have a few contacts. These documents are official and valid for most countries (the US included). It is next to impossible to check if a rare parrot importet from say, Brazil, was indeed breed in captivity "down there" (as claimed by the documents) or actually caught in the wild.
So, even though it may seem like the US (or the EU for that matter) "solved" the problem, that is far from being the truth...

Anyway, back on subject: Rupicola, are you looking for info from all over the World, all genera (not just Pyrrhura)? In any case I'd recommend you checking HBW vol. 2, page 79: Two photos showing an African Goshawk trying to catch a Rueppel's Parrot in full flight. A very close call but the parrot got away.

thank you Rasmus, I fully agree with your comment.
every now and then I hear of very doubtful parrots being offered.

As you know my personal interest mainly goes out to genus Pyrrhura, but this subject and the purpose of the article for that matter goes 'a little' beyond them.

 

[rupicola]

Nature puts the parrots on the same prey list like any other bird that doesn't eat meat.
Here in the US we have importation laws in place...and have had for quite awhile now. All birds here have now been captive bred unless they are in a special classification because they are endangered, and these you won't find in the trade, they are being bred by incredibly responsible people to increase the number of birds left and are not offered for sale for pets. since the captive bred parrot population (of just about any kind has increased by leaps and bounds) These breeders take parrot conservation and preservation very very seriously! Hope you are successful, too.
Shelley

thanks for your reply Shelley,
Rasmus already commented your reply and I agree with him.

I won't question most parrotbreeders taking parrot conservation and preservation very seriously, hé, .... I'm one of them.

The point is there are many breeders who don't realy care if they can buy an imported wild caught parrot or a captive bred parrot. My goal is to convince
some of them not to buy a wild caught.

'The need for imporation no longer exists'
there are quite a few reasons to believe this unfortunately is not true.
First of all there still is a lot of money involved in parrot trade in general.
Illegal trade still feeds the ever existing demands for uncommon species.

'you won't find endangered species in the trade'.
I will not draw the attention to the (wrong) traders so I won't mention them
in detail but you'll be surprised what you can buy here in Europe but certainly in the USA! I found US price lists you would not believe.

Even (cheap) parrot species who are very common in captivity are not save from being caught in the wild to improve bad managed genepools and reduced colouration. (e.g.Agapornis roseicollis)

 

[Tanager]

thank you very much Tanager.
could you by any chance recall what species of snake it was or might have been?

Rupicola,

I asked about the species of snake this evening, they believe it was a Boa Constrictor.

Cheers,

Mark

 

[rupicola]

Rupicola,

I asked about the species of snake this evening, they believe it was a Boa Constrictor.

Cheers,

Mark

thank you very much Tanager.

 

[rupicola]

Hi Rupicola,

Have you checked Lynx HBW? That includes some details about natural parrot mortality (parrots in Vol. 4).

Michael

Hi Michael,

thanks for the tip.
I did not (yet!) check the Handbook of Birds of the World on this subject.
As you sure will know, these books are rather expensive, but within a short period of time I'll get the opportunity to look into those great books.

 

[RationalParrot]

Rasmus: I think the American law is stricter than that in Europe. As I understand things, it's illegal to import birds like African Greys into the U.S., but not into European countries. I'm not sure about this, though, and I don't have the time to check.

In any case, I saw this thread and I wanted to add something else. Some intrepid souls allow their parrots liberty. That is, they allow their pet parrots to fly freely outside. Several of them post on various parrot groups, and on their own email list.

One concern these people have, of course, is predation. But they say even pet parrots become excellent flyers if they're allowed to fledge. Parrots are smart, paranoid, and social, so parrots at liberty become very good very quickly at avoiding predators, they say, and can usually outfly North American hawks looking to snatch them. Furthermore, many parrots are good sized birds. African Greys, Amazons, and Cockatoos are as big or bigger than many hawks, and of course some Macaws are the size of eagles. This fact alone intimidates many predators, the free flying folks say. More than one hawk has had second thoughts and pulled away after getting a load of the size of a Moloccan Cockatoo, I understand. And, of course, parrots are tough. I recall at least one person describing an incident in which a hawk grabbed onto a parrot, and then wished he hadn't, after the parrot applied its formidable beak to the hawk's leg.

If you've ever been around some of the larger pet birds, you understand that they're not pushovers. They wouldn't be an easy mark for predatory birds, at least if they weren't naive.

Anyway, this is all indirect commentary, but the point is that even these free flying domestic birds give good indication that parrots are no soft touches in the wild. My guess is that, after they're fledged, parrots do not make easy meals. The large ones, for sure, can't end up on too many dinner plates.

 

[Chris D]

I'm not sure if this fits..............but I did witness some species of parrots being hunted and consumed by natives in the southern lowlands of West Papua, Indonesia. Bow and arrow culture.......

 

[Gajo]

Apparently, Harpy Eagles eat Parrots http://www.duke.edu/~djb4/What eats parrots.htm


Keeping Enemies Away - In many areas used by Orange-bellied Parrots, predators abound. On mainland Australia both foxes and cats turned wild are most destructive to the bird. These are no foxes in Tasmania but feral cats are a problem and in south-west Tasmania the European starling competes vigorously with Orange-bellied Parrots for nest sites. Measures to control these enemies are being taken. http://www.parrotsociety.org.au/articles/art_015.htm

The loss of adults we believe to be the major cause of the species' decline, that Pied Butcherbirds are the major predators, and that most are lost before and during the breeding season.
http://www.tasweb.com.au/bapa/antbed6.htm

Gary

 

[rupicola]

Apparently, Harpy Eagles eat Parrots http://www.duke.edu/~djb4/What eats parrots.htm


Keeping Enemies Away - In many areas used by Orange-bellied Parrots, predators abound. On mainland Australia both foxes and cats turned wild are most destructive to the bird. These are no foxes in Tasmania but feral cats are a problem and in south-west Tasmania the European starling competes vigorously with Orange-bellied Parrots for nest sites. Measures to control these enemies are being taken. http://www.parrotsociety.org.au/articles/art_015.htm

The loss of adults we believe to be the major cause of the species' decline, that Pied Butcherbirds are the major predators, and that most are lost before and during the breeding season.
http://www.tasweb.com.au/bapa/antbed6.htm

Gary

thank you Gary,

specially the third link is new to me.

 

[rupicola]

I'm not sure if this fits..............but I did witness some species of parrots being hunted and consumed by natives in the southern lowlands of West Papua, Indonesia. Bow and arrow culture.......

thanks Chris,
it's a well known fact that parrots around the world are also for consumption being predated by humans. Can you recall what species they were?

 

[Rasmus Boegh]

Rasmus: I think the American law is stricter than that in Europe. As I understand things, it's illegal to import birds like African Greys into the U.S., but not into European countries. I'm not sure about this, though, and I don't have the time to check.

First, sorry for this slight change of subject!

The answer to the above quote is yes... and no! The main rules in the US and EU are governed by CITES. To explain what I mean I'll give a rather brief and (very!) simplified overview: Basically there are three main possibilities in terms of CITES:

1) Not listed. You can do whatever you want. An example would be the Starling. Your local government may stop you, but CITES don't really care as it is not endangered in any way on a global scale.
2) CITES II (list 2). Trade and possible hunting is restricted by CITES (there's a quata), but not totally illegal. You mention the Grey Parrot. This species is a CITES II species. Actually, when looking at that species on a global scale, it doesn't even qualify for listing!!! Basically because it has a large range and is rather common in a large part of it. Yes, local populations may be threatened (i.e. on the islands in the Gulf of Guinea), but overall it is not threatened. It is listed because of a treaty several years ago, where it was agreed that all parrots - because of their popularity as pets - should be listed on CITES II as a minimum. There are only two or three exceptions; i.e. the Budgerigar which is not listed at all for obvious reasons! When something is on CITES II it basically means that it is not yet considered endangered, but there's a need to watch for the future. Can somewhat unfairly be compared to the "near threatened" used by IUCN and Birdlife International.
3) CITES I (list one). This is the top rating. If a species is on the CITES I list, trade (if any) is highly restricted, and only in special cases (i.e. if bred in captivity). A permit is needed for these species.

*as said, above is a highly simplified version; among others there's a preliminary list III aswell.

Above is why the Grey Parrot can be traded. It is on list II; it basically means that some countries (which exacly are determined by CITES) are allowed to catch and then export a number of wild Grey's. A large percentage of the world have signed the CITES treaty, and thus have to follow these restrictions. You can not import wild Grey's from a country not allowed to do so by CITES. However, a country can make even tighter restrictions if they want to do so. Normally, there is no real arguments for doing so, but for various reasons it is still done sometimes. In the US this is determined by the Fish and Wildlife Service. CITES is the minimum requirements, but they can make it even tighter if they want to. However, the species on CITES II isn't of greater importance in terms of the risk of becomming extinct. CITES I is. CITES I is more or less as restricted as can be done. Papers are needed, and normally it is not legal to collect ANY WILD individuals. Exceptions are few, and generally doesn't apply to "normal people" - but rather local authorities. An example could be if it is felt that it is needed to collect a number of wild individuals for captive breeding to save the species.

So, back to the original quote. Yes, under normal circumstances it is illegal to import Grey Parrot's to US if caught in the wild. In Europe (or rather the EU; I am not aware of the rules outside though I suspect that they are similar) it is legal, but only if importet from countries that are allowed to do so on by CITES. However, in other cases it is the other way around (i.e. EU rules tighter than US), and, in any case, these are all CITES II species, so not of greater importance as they generally can't be considered endangered! The rules in terms of the CITES I species are almost completely similar in the US and the EU. The differences in these cases are minute and not of any importance. Both countries only allow these species if they are bred in captivity or under special circumstances as mentioned previously. The main way people get around these rules are by getting a false CITES permit stating that the parrot (or whatever) was bred in captivity...

 

[Chris D]

thanks Chris,
it's a well known fact that parrots around the world are also for consumption being predated by humans. Can you recall what species they were?

Sulfur Crested and Palm Cockatoo, Western Black-Capped Lory, and some small things I couldn't I.D. at the time. If you look in "Where World's Collide--The Wallace Line" by Penny van Oosterzee, on page 115 you can see arrows similiar to the ones I saw in use. Where we were, everything that was protein was a potential source of food.