That's a pain.... happened to me a few times, when I've forgotten to tidy up my in box.
He should receive a message saying that someone's tried to contact him. So hopefully he'll clear some space soon. Try again later on.
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Undescribed bird in Madagascar? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Jens Thalund
- Start date
That's a pain.... happened to me a few times, when I've forgotten to tidy up my in box.
He should receive a message saying that someone's tried to contact him. So hopefully he'll clear some space soon. Try again later on.
abirdingguy
Well-known member
Update: Thanks to the good folks at the Avery Fisher Center for Music & Media at New York University, I now have the "Bird Sounds of Madagascar" CD track for Dusky Tetraka (recorded by Frank Hawkins). It is a good quality recording, but wasn't as conclusive as I hoped (again this could be due to my lack of expertise). As mentioned by Pamela Rasmussen on her posted recording of the Dusky Tetraka, the Hawkins track is significantly different than hers. The Hawkins track is at a higher frequency than the Rasmussen track. This is around the same frequencies as Spectacled Tetraka recordings posted to the web and my recent recording.
I'm not sure what to think at this point. Any more experienced volunteers willing to take a look/listen at my recordings?
I'm not sure what to think at this point. Any more experienced volunteers willing to take a look/listen at my recordings?
pbjosh
missing the neotropics
I can only relate that I have heard from a couple different sources that "recordings of Dusky Tetraka are not of Dusky Tetraka" or "recordings of Dusky Tetraka are worth skepticism." I apologize that I cannot offer more detail and can't really say how much stock I put in the whole thing. The bird, while clearly extant, is certainly a unicorn with no known photos in life and no vouchered / verified recordings that I know of.
Good discussion and curious to see if anything comes to light. Thank you to those who are pursuing information and thank you to those who are genuinely helping, something I unfortunately cannot do.
Good discussion and curious to see if anything comes to light. Thank you to those who are pursuing information and thank you to those who are genuinely helping, something I unfortunately cannot do.
I guess most reading this will have read some or all of the 3 web post extracts I paste below. If not, do take a look. I don't think we should underestimate just how little is known about this species or how 'dubious' are most recent reports... Absolutely no disrespect intended to any of the 3 birders mentioned, in fact, quite the opposite.
Pam's site is now visited regularly for Slender-billed Flufftail and has huge potential. Others may be able to add more on what's been seen there recently...? I believe Patrice is a very well-known and experienced guide.
Loads of birders have visited Masoala and the fact that DT hasn't been nailed there tells a story to me.
Marojejy sounds intriguing.
Have dropped a note to Tring asking about skins but I'm not expecting a quick (or perhaps any!) reply. Not sure they have time to deal with very informal questions like mine.
My hope is that DTs are out there and once discovered, they will turn out to be a 'you-know-it-when-you-see-it' bird.
Cheers all,
Andy.
Pamela C. Rasmussen
2 Jun 2008
Andasibe-Mantadia National Park, Mantadia
ID by guide Patrice, who saw well at close quarters and said he was certain of this ID particularly on the basis of calls; I saw it poorly in dim light and could not distinguish from Xanthomixis zosterops. Call does not closely match any for X. zosterops on any CD or XC, being distinctly lower (mainly 5.5-7.5 kHz, with a few notes higher) and sharper and clearer. However, not similar to only available cut, on Bird Sounds of Madagascar, for this species.
Johannes Fischer,
November 2012
Due to flight schedules we had to visit the far-flung Marojejy National Park. This park was of special interest to me for rumours about genuine Dusky Tetraka´s seen here. Unfortunately these rumours turned out to be false and we saw none of these mythical creatures. However, I still think this is The place to search for this phantom, due to the variety of the forests and the extremely high quality of them in this national park.
Chris Kehoe, Birdquest
Oct / Nov 2013
We began our final day at the Masoala with an early return to the trails near Ambodiforaha where a Redfronted Coua showed very well. We struggled with a furtive Tetraka that our local guide was convinced was a rare Dusky Tetraka though ultimately it was not fully convincing (the local form of Spectacled Tetraka looks just like the illustration of Dusky Tetraka in the fieldguide!) and watched a small feeding party containing Tylas Vangas, Madagascar Paradise Flycatchers, Malagasy Green Sunbird and others.
Pam's site is now visited regularly for Slender-billed Flufftail and has huge potential. Others may be able to add more on what's been seen there recently...? I believe Patrice is a very well-known and experienced guide.
Loads of birders have visited Masoala and the fact that DT hasn't been nailed there tells a story to me.
Marojejy sounds intriguing.
Have dropped a note to Tring asking about skins but I'm not expecting a quick (or perhaps any!) reply. Not sure they have time to deal with very informal questions like mine.
My hope is that DTs are out there and once discovered, they will turn out to be a 'you-know-it-when-you-see-it' bird.
Cheers all,
Andy.
Pamela C. Rasmussen
2 Jun 2008
Andasibe-Mantadia National Park, Mantadia
ID by guide Patrice, who saw well at close quarters and said he was certain of this ID particularly on the basis of calls; I saw it poorly in dim light and could not distinguish from Xanthomixis zosterops. Call does not closely match any for X. zosterops on any CD or XC, being distinctly lower (mainly 5.5-7.5 kHz, with a few notes higher) and sharper and clearer. However, not similar to only available cut, on Bird Sounds of Madagascar, for this species.
Johannes Fischer,
November 2012
Due to flight schedules we had to visit the far-flung Marojejy National Park. This park was of special interest to me for rumours about genuine Dusky Tetraka´s seen here. Unfortunately these rumours turned out to be false and we saw none of these mythical creatures. However, I still think this is The place to search for this phantom, due to the variety of the forests and the extremely high quality of them in this national park.
Chris Kehoe, Birdquest
Oct / Nov 2013
We began our final day at the Masoala with an early return to the trails near Ambodiforaha where a Redfronted Coua showed very well. We struggled with a furtive Tetraka that our local guide was convinced was a rare Dusky Tetraka though ultimately it was not fully convincing (the local form of Spectacled Tetraka looks just like the illustration of Dusky Tetraka in the fieldguide!) and watched a small feeding party containing Tylas Vangas, Madagascar Paradise Flycatchers, Malagasy Green Sunbird and others.
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pbjosh
missing the neotropics
Hi Andy,
I know of a few more claimed records of Dusky Tetraka or "possible/likely" Dusky Tetraka from the past few years. Some of them are very specious. One is from a very reputable birder/guide who had a pretty good observation in Masoala. I would be tempted to / would like to believe the latter record but given the absolute paucity of verified records I think a healthy dose of skepticism is warranted.
Cheers,
Josh
I know of a few more claimed records of Dusky Tetraka or "possible/likely" Dusky Tetraka from the past few years. Some of them are very specious. One is from a very reputable birder/guide who had a pretty good observation in Masoala. I would be tempted to / would like to believe the latter record but given the absolute paucity of verified records I think a healthy dose of skepticism is warranted.
Cheers,
Josh
rockfowl
Mark Andrews
Thanks to McMadd, I've been prompted to look at this thread.
In truth I can't remember if I worked from a skin or a description for this particular species. I did check some species at the BM Tring but whether this was one I'm not sure. I'll have a dig around to see if I have any images of skins.
Been twenty years, sorry folks.
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abirdingguy
Well-known member
Thanks for the response. If you ever manage to come up with any photos or skins, please let me know.
Josh, indeed, there are other claims out there. The 3 notes I posted just struck me as the more novel I'd come across re DT. I should also say, absolutely no disrespect intended to anyone contributing to this very interesting thread either... And those camera trap photos would be sooooo interesting to see.
Best,
Andy
Best,
Andy
jurek
Well-known member
Just to point. The original information comes from a travel guide and a man who is not an ornithologist. BBC should be able to easily identify the bird and, if it was something interesting, would likely release the news. I strongly suspect the photos were long ago identified as some rather ordinary bird, so nobody bothered to publicize it.
I hope there will not start an urban legend here.
I am still looking for photos of Dusky Tetraka specimens, for any future uncertain birders in Madagascar.
I've had a very helpful reply from Tring. They hold 2 specimens taken from Sianaka Forest, one in 1924 and the other in 1925. I or a friend can visit to take photos (and also of Spectacled T of course for side by side comparison). I'm sure I can get that organised quite soon.
So, watch this space,
Andy
Ps. Sianaka looks to be 150km northeast of Tana
So, watch this space,
Andy
Ps. Sianaka looks to be 150km northeast of Tana
abirdingguy
Well-known member
Great. Please do post if you get any pics.
RafaelMatias
Unknown member
Are these misidentifications? http://forum.awd.ru/viewtopic.php?p=3083819#p3083819
(I know nothing about Malagasy birds, just pure curiosity about this fascinating subject)
(I know nothing about Malagasy birds, just pure curiosity about this fascinating subject)
Rafael, I would have thought they show the dark race of Spectacled but I can’t be sure. This is the problem, no-one knows exactly what Duskys look like or any fail-safe ID features. It’s also possible that the species doesn’t really exist and all records are simply of this Spectacled race...
RafaelMatias
Unknown member
Many thanks. I guess the Tring specimens will help shedding some light over this interesting mystery...!
Hi, am pleased to report that Roy Hargreaves very kindly visited Tring this week and took the attached photos – 2 of Spectacled Tetraka and 3 of Dusky posted here. Thank you Roy. He comments:
“When I saw the Dusky Tetraka specimens I was immediately struck by the tail structure as being the most useful feature. They have proportionately much shorter and narrower tails than Spectacled. I’m confident the pictures that Rafael Matias linked to are not Dusky and appear to be Spectacled.
I took Spectacled from NE Madagascar as that seems to be where Dusky are found. It would seem that both species have gone through at least four different genus names to get to the current scientific names.
For some reason most of the Spectacled Tetraka wings looked quite dishevelled and I didn’t like to try too hard to rectify that in case something came loose.”
Thanks also to the staff at Tring. I've posted compressed versions only but can provide higher res if anyone wants them. The size differences in the individual photos are due to males and females shown.
I’ve just checked Sinclair and Langrand 2003, and the illustration hints at this tail difference but it is not as apparent as Roy’s photos show. Also, no mention in the text.
I find this quite fascinating. It strongly indicates to me that Dusky is a distinct species and the structural features noted above hint at a terrestrial bird. There must be an exciting opportunity for someone to visit Sianaka Forest and areas close by, to search for it.
Anyway, thoughts welcomed of course.
Best,
Andy
“When I saw the Dusky Tetraka specimens I was immediately struck by the tail structure as being the most useful feature. They have proportionately much shorter and narrower tails than Spectacled. I’m confident the pictures that Rafael Matias linked to are not Dusky and appear to be Spectacled.
I took Spectacled from NE Madagascar as that seems to be where Dusky are found. It would seem that both species have gone through at least four different genus names to get to the current scientific names.
For some reason most of the Spectacled Tetraka wings looked quite dishevelled and I didn’t like to try too hard to rectify that in case something came loose.”
Thanks also to the staff at Tring. I've posted compressed versions only but can provide higher res if anyone wants them. The size differences in the individual photos are due to males and females shown.
I’ve just checked Sinclair and Langrand 2003, and the illustration hints at this tail difference but it is not as apparent as Roy’s photos show. Also, no mention in the text.
I find this quite fascinating. It strongly indicates to me that Dusky is a distinct species and the structural features noted above hint at a terrestrial bird. There must be an exciting opportunity for someone to visit Sianaka Forest and areas close by, to search for it.
Anyway, thoughts welcomed of course.
Best,
Andy
Attachments
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pbjosh
missing the neotropics
Fantastic, thank you so much for posting Andy.
I'm curious if weights were recorded for the specimens to infer relative bulk in the field (hard to say how well their stuffed presentation reflects reality). As well it looks like one of the two Dusky Tetrakas is missing some tail feathers, which makes me question what state of molt both are in. I wouldn't try to guess what represents wear post preparation and what represents wear while the bird was still alive but would be interested if others feel confident addressing that.
I would love to see higher res versions of these photos if possible.
I'm curious if weights were recorded for the specimens to infer relative bulk in the field (hard to say how well their stuffed presentation reflects reality). As well it looks like one of the two Dusky Tetrakas is missing some tail feathers, which makes me question what state of molt both are in. I wouldn't try to guess what represents wear post preparation and what represents wear while the bird was still alive but would be interested if others feel confident addressing that.
I would love to see higher res versions of these photos if possible.
Have just noticed that in post 31, I passed on Tring data that one specimen was taken in 1924 and one in 1925. Would be quite a coincidence if both were at similar stages of moult and showed short, narrow tails when in fact DT doesn’t possess that feature. Almost impossible I would suggest. Am strongly tempted to think that we are seeing the true structure of DT in the photos.
