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The Zeiss SFL 8x30 compared with select current 8x30/8x32 roof binoculars (1 Viewer)

Well I guess Dennis was quoting Allbinos so I wanted to respond in-kind! :)

Honestly I haven't spent much time on the House of Outdoor website because Allbinos is so much easier for me to navigate.

FWIW, I thought the Monarch 8x30 HG was one of the few Allbinos reviews that seemed odd to me, the edge-of-field problems were overstated. It's not that bad, and I"m sensitive to it. When I compared the MHG with Swaro 8x30 CL I found the Swaro had better edge sharpness, but the MHG had better color correction. And to me, it doesn't seem fair to compare these and the SFL's to binoculars weighing 25% more. One would expect the heavier binos to perform better.
I lost you there Scott, why would we expect heavier to perform better? And did you mean better CA correction? Not trying to be a stickler, just following the thread. Thank you.

Paul
 
Where would that place the KOWA 8x33 which Allbinos placed just above Conquest?
Forget about allbinos! 32/30 Genesis, conquest, MHG , Trinovid , meostar all in the $1000 price point, all the same give or take in one area or another. Can’t speak for the SFL30, but the 40 is a clear step up. Go,try them and see what’s best for you. You may not even see the difference and save yourself some money.
 
I lost you there Scott, why would we expect heavier to perform better? And did you mean better CA correction? Not trying to be a stickler, just following the thread. Thank you.

Paul
The MHG 8x30 has better CA correction, especially on the edge. That is one weak point of the CL 8x30. Kind of surprising too because usually Swaro uses high-end glass and they have excellent coatings.
 
{{ cont'd }}

The Zeiss SFL 8x30 compared with select current 8x30/8x32 roof binoculars

PART 2: Brief side-by-side comparisons


Comparison 10: Zeiss SFL 8x30 and GPO Passion ED 8x32

How much better should a $ 1'500 binocular be, compared to a $ 350 binocular? Of course, there is no "right answer" to this question, and anway, we would first have to debate what the term "better" implies. But what this and the previous comparisons have again shown me, differences between more expensive and less expensive binoculars are sometimes much smaller than one might expect.

GPO is a relatively well established brand by now. The small Passion ED has received good marks in recent reviews (Gijs van Ginkel, Neil English). Putting it side-by-side with the SFL shiws that the two are almost the same size, the GPO is 2-3 ounces heavier. I find the Passion ED well built and finished, mechanically good (clickstops on the eyecups could be a bit firmer) with a smooth focuser and easy to operate diopter adjustment ring.
Eyerelief is better on the SFL, but should be sufficient for many on the Passion ED.
Ease of view – finding comfortable eye position to see the entire FOV – is comparable (after I had gotten used to adjust the SFL eyecups in the right measure).
Focus direction (close to infinity) is counterclockwise, not my favorite, but I would not hold that against the bino; focus speed is a bit slower than in the SFL, and for me, the SFL “pops” into sharp focus a bit more easily. Close focus is still ok with 2.0 m, the SFL is obviously better. GPO states the diopter adjustment range to be +/- 2.5 dpt, which I consider an understatement, I estimate it to be at least +/- 3 dpt, close to +/- 3.5 dpt.

The FOV is just slightly narrower in the Passion ED (7.9 degrees, vs. 8.1 in the SFL), irrelevant in practice. Central sharpness and particularly contrast are at least equivalent, which in part has to do with the clearly warmer image tone in the Passion ED, color fidelity in the SFL is distinctly better. Edge sharpness is also a bit better in the SFL, and the SFL’s image appears somewhat brighter. On the other hand, CA is very well corrected in the Passion ED, at least at the level of the SFL, perhaps a tad better.

Panning is nice and smooth in both, but goes together with a relatively high amount of rectangular distortion in the Passion ED, more than in the SFL. Also, field curvature is more pronounced in the Passion ED.

Stray-light: without going into elaborate tests, I found both quite well controlled; the faint spikes on bright light sources visible in the SFL are totally absent in the Passion ED.

Summing up: in my modest view, the Passion ED stands its ground very well against the SFL, which means it offers really good value for money. Of course, it lacks the refined ergonomics and brand prestige of the SFL (one question impossible to answer for me is how well a bino will mechanically perform over time – the expectation might be higher for the SFL, but who knows). But the Passion ED proves again that the perceivebale differences between a 1'500 dollar and a 350 dollar binocular are not always as big as you would expect.

Personal verdict:

The Passion ED and SFL are comparable in
  • size
  • FOV
  • focusser smoothness
  • central sharpness and contrast
  • ease of view
  • panning comfort


The Passion ED is
slightly ahead in terms of
  • straylight and spikes
  • CA correction

and much ahead in
- price !!!


The SFL is ahead in
  • weight
  • usable eye relief
  • close focus
  • color fidelity
  • edge sharpness
  • image brightness

fwiw Canip

SFL und GPO.jpg
 
{{ cont'd }}


The Zeiss SFL 8x30 compared with select current 8x30/8x32 roof binoculars


PART 3: My take-aways


The very brief comparisons in Part 2 can only serve as a rough indication where the SFL is positioned among its competition. Much more important information will come out of field reviews such as the one Lee is planning to do shortly.

Zeiss has positioned its new SFL line with, as far as I can see, using three unique selling points:

a. super light and compact: 20-30% lighter than competition

b. UHD (Ultra-High-Definition): optical design and coatings optimized for detail recognition and color fidelity

c. SmartFocus: focus wheel positioned forward, and fast focus mechanism


From the artificial “lab perspective” of my side-by-sides (which need verification by field experience) I would give Zeiss

- point a. : agreed, without hesitation

- point b. : ½ point ok (color fidelity); I am not so sure about detail recognition (the optics of the SFL provide good sharpness and contrast, but if anything were to gain the label “Ultra-High-Definition”, it would be the Victory SF, or perhaps the Victory HT, not the SFL)

- point c.: agreed, with some hesitation (the focus wheel is positioned forward, and the focusing speed is relatively high, but not as high as e.g. on the Conquest HD)

In addition, we might add that Zeiss has achiveved a very good panning comfort in the SFL line. This is not unique, others provide a similarly comfortable panning experience, but it is good to know that Zeiss has given this particular attention.

So if I compare the SFL to the selected competitors as a group, I find it sticks out mainly as a well rounded overall package with targeting mainly those who want a lightweight, compact bino with excellent focuser, good panning comfort and as a whole very good optics and mechanics. This should be a very attractive overall birding package.

This does not mean that other binoculars in the comparator group are not better in individual disciplines (and indeed they sometimes are). But the combination as it is put together in the SFL and priced significantly below the top Zeiss binos to me looks like a recipe for success.

This is even more true in my view for the 8x40 SFL, with which I did not have to experiment at all to find best ease of view. With the 8x30, I did try out a number of eye positions and clickstop extensions before getting fully happy in the use of the bino.
This goes with a disclaimer: although I have been using 8x30 binos for over 50 years, they are not my ideal configuration and I much prefer 8x40 or 8x42 with their larger exit pupil. So my experience with the 8x30 should not be generalized.

Fwiw Canip
 
The Zeiss SFL 8x30 compared with select current 8x30/8x32 roof binoculars

INDEX

PART 1
: General comments and comparison of data post # 1

PART 2: Brief side-by-side comparisons

Comparison 1: Zeiss SFL 8x30 and Leica UV 8x32 HD+ post # 32
Comparison 2: Zeiss SFL 8x30 and Swarovski CL 8x30
post # 42
Comparison 3: Zeiss SFL 8x30 and Nikon MHG 8x30
post # 45
Comparison 4: Zeiss SFL 8x30 and MeoStar 8x32 B1 Plus
post # 90
Comparison 5: Zeiss SFL 8x30 and Leica Trinovid 8x32 HD
post # 116
Comparison 6: Zeiss SFL 8x30 and Conquest 8x32 HD
post # 124
Comparison "7 and 8": Zeiss SFL 8x30 and Mount Olympus post # 160
Comparison 6: Zeiss SFL 8x30 and Blaser Globetrotter 8x30
post # 169
Comparison "7 and 8": Zeiss SFL 8x30 and GPO Passion ED 8x32
post # 185

PART 3: Take-Aways post # 186
 
Thank you, Andy[...]your question triggers a longer answer[...]

If anybody were to ask about some of my favorite other sizes (not te be confused with "the best"), I today would answer:
  • 8x42 Swaro SLC (focuser repaired once)
  • 8x50 Leica UV HD+
  • 8x56 Zeiss FL
  • 10x42 MeoStar
  • 10x50 Swaro EL SV (mechanically impeccable) or Leica UV HD+
  • 7x42 Zeiss FL
Ask me again in a few years time and my answer may be a different one ....;)

fwiw Canip
Canip, (a) I’m interested in how binocular users’ preferences change with their age and vision, and (b) I much value your assessments of binoculars (as Canip or Pinac). Could you please give a list like the above for the time when your vision was at its best? Thank you!
 
The Zeiss SFL 8x30 compared with select current 8x30/8x32 roof binoculars

PART 3: My take-aways

c.
SmartFocus: focus wheel positioned forward, and fast focus mechanism

- point c.: agreed, with some hesitation (the focus wheel is positioned forward, and the focusing speed is relatively high, but not as high as e.g. on the Conquest HD)
Not to go on, but seems the focuser isnt that much forward on the 30s.... At least it doesn't look that way in photos and others have commented. You still see it that way?
 
Not to go on, but seems the focuser isnt that much forward on the 30s....

Oh yes, I think it is.

Consider the history (pic below):
Zeiss started putting the focuser forward when they responded to Swaro's EL SV with the Victory SF. Swarovski responded with the NL - no more open bridge, but focuser further forward than SF. Then Zeiss came out with SFL40, now the SFL 30, and each time the focuser is slightly forther forward (see red line as middle of bino body).

Canip

IMG_2373 2.jpeg
 
Last edited:
At the
Oh yes, I think it is.

Consider the history (pic below):
Zeiss started putting the focuser forward when they responded to Swaro's EL SV with the Victory SF. Swarovski responded with the NL - no more open bridge, but focuser further forward than SF. Then Zeiss came out with SF 40, now the SF 30, and each time the focuser is slightly forther forward (see red line as middle of bino body).

Canip

View attachment 1502266
At the risk of sounding really dumb.....forward is towards the objective - right? If you stood that row of binos up on their objective ends the SFL 40 and 30 will drop further... ah.... forward/down and the focuser will drop even lower relative to the red line. The 30 being the most forward. That seems to put it in a rather different place vis a vis the EL, SF and NL. I dont recall it being awkward when trying the 40 vs NL32. But the 30 seems potentially so. Admittedly Ive not put hands on one.
 
Canip, (a) I’m interested in how binocular users’ preferences change with their age and vision, and (b) I much value your assessments of binoculars (as Canip or Pinac). Could you please give a list like the above for the time when your vision was at its best? Thank you!

Tks Andy. I am not sure I can answer this to your satisfaction.

Caveat: if you read the entire post # 147, the list you are quoting was the result not only of changes in vision acuity, but also some binos or even brands may have lost their preferrred spot because of mechanical or similar "incompatibilities". Could still be a question of age, though.

I once had a list of prefererred binos from earlier times, but it is long gone.

Generally, over time I have been valuing ergonomics more than in the beginning. This and narrow FOVs are reasons why I am not very fond of current IS binos, which I enjoyed more back in time (I value the optics and IS on the 10x42 Canon, which I consider the best current IS bino, but hate its shape, eyecups etc.). Using an IS bino has now been almost fully replaced by handheld low mag observation or 8x / 10x / 12x observation from a tripod.
I used to go out years ago with a 8x or even 10x bino ffor dog walks, but am now usually equipped with a 6x, 6.5x or 7x and think they are more helpful on the run - smaller details, but less shaking, overall more satisfaction.

Then, the "acute" brilliance and sharpness of, say, an EL SV which once took top priority in my preferences has since made space for the somehow (as percieved by me) color richer image of a Leica UV, which I perceive as less sharp (still sharp enough ;)) , but pleasantly high in contrast and in a way more "natural". In this sense, if I once thought in general terms about the premium manufacturers, just considering their product portfolio, I would rate them Swaro - Zeiss - Leica - Nikon (top to bottom); nowadays, it is Leica - Zeiss - Swaro - Nikon.

Also, smoooth and precise focusers with no play are more important to me now than 30 years ago. Not once in my life did I have to send in a Leica for repairs on a focuser (for other things, yes.) Both Swaros and Zeisses had to be sent in because of issues with the focuser, and my recent experience (reported in another post) leads me to believe that Zeiss has gotten focuser design under control, but Swarovski seems not to have, (just my own experience; even if many focusers on my Swaro binos do their job, I rarely get the smoothness that an SFL provides; YMMV).
FOV: I once was obsessed with widefield design. More recently, I have come back a bit on this; I enjoy the FOV in the NL or SF very much, but now don't mind if it's a bit less, say, 8 degrees or so in an 8x bino or (the SFL just fits the bill) if image characteristics are otherwise pleasant. How much my satisfaction with narrower fields has to do with the aging of my eyes, I can't say, but there may be a connection.
I never had much issue with globe effect or distortion phenomena, and this has not changed with time.

Unsatisfactory CA correction was no big deal for me in earlier times, but with modern bino design and glasses, this is now no major issue anyway (many CA issues debated here and in other forums have a lot to do with eye placement etc.).

Canip
 
I lost you there Scott, why would we expect heavier to perform better? And did you mean better CA correction? Not trying to be a stickler, just following the thread. Thank you.

Paul
It's a generalization but heavier weight means the designer can add more lenses and/or wider prisms...which should lead to improved performance. Yes, including color correction.
 
It's a generalization but heavier weight means the designer can add more lenses and/or wider prisms...which should lead to improved performance. Yes, including color correction.
Assuming the handhold allows equal balance, a greater mass will also be slightly more stable.
 

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