Speculative 10x30/32 question (1 Viewer)

[Sheepwatcher]

How much is "affordable"?

UVHD+'s seem to be going for $1600-2400, so less than that 😁

 

[[email protected]]

That depends on the user, you also pay way less for 90% of the performance of an alpha. Some people are willing to pay 3x extra for that 5-10% difference. I remember another thread where you praised the subalphas like Trac Torics, according to you, why would someone spend $3000 for an alpha when you have the 90% percent of performance with a Tract Toric. Do you still think the same way? Or was it specific to that brand of binocular?

The Tract Torics were pretty good, but that was before the NL and SF came out with their huge FOV and left the Tract Toric with its modest FOV and soft edges in the dust. All the innovation comes in the newer alphas. There is lot bigger difference between the top alphas like an NL and SF and an SFL or EL now because of the huge deficit in FOV and transparency in the sub-alphas.

Swarovski and Zeiss have really made remarkable improvements in their top glass, and I can really see more than 5-10% difference optically. Build quality wise, the top alphas like the NL and SF are light years ahead of the sub-alphas. The quality of an SF or NL is really remarkable. You can tell there was a lot of blood, sweat and tears that went into making them. That is why they cost so much.

 

[tenex]

What do you prefer about it compared to the UVHD+? And how does it compare to the FL?

But quite heavy, aren't they?

The larger Trinovids were bricks but the 10x32 is reasonable at 23oz, and fills my hands better than UV. A bit less bright than UV but other differences are quite subtle. (I'm also just fond of it after all those years.) Probably around $600 for a nice one today? FL is excellent, bright with more neutral colors and less CA... and more like $1k. (Ideally; prices are usually inflated now on eBay.)

 

[Thotmosis]

But quite heavy, aren't they?
They look gorgeous, that is right for sure!

Thanks, they are gorgeous but they weight more than my 8x32 UVHD but (for me) not too much, in a way it gives me more confidence in the build quality. I really like the eyecups and grip better on the old Trinnies. But for sure the new UVHD+ wil be brighter and you get AquaDura so better in damp wetter.

 

[GreenRooky]

Do the 10x32FL still hold up? They seem to still go for a premium second hand but also don't come up for sale much.

 

[Thotmosis]

Do the 10x32FL still hold up? They seem to still go for a premium second hand but also don't come up for sale much.

I had the FL 8x32, great glass and yess IMHO still one of the best, although for my facial structure i like Leica Trinovid BN a tad better.
EDIT: also i like the contrast better in the Leica.

 

[[email protected]]

Do the 10x32FL still hold up? They seem to still go for a premium second hand but also don't come up for sale much.

For what they want for a 10x32 FL around here, I would go with an SF or NL 10x32. Bigger FOV, sharper edges and more transparent. I picked my SF 10x32 up for $1800 LNIB. Trinovids and FL's are nice, but they are getting pretty old in the tooth compared to the latest alphas. I understand the attraction though if you like the handling on the BN and the FL, but you give up a little in brightness, edge sharpness, contrast, transparency and FOV to the SF and NL.

 

[mwhogue]

Do the 10x32FL still hold up? They seem to still go for a premium second hand but also don't come up for sale much.

Still love my 10x32 FL. Interesting to know that the prices on the used models of these are still at a premium while it seems other previous generation (SW and Leica) 8 and 10x 32's can often be had for a song. A year or two ago, a basically new UV HD+ 10x32 sold here in the classifieds for $1000 -- and that only after sitting for a while.

Mike

 

[Thotmosis]

Still love my 10x32 FL. Interesting to know that the prices on the used models of these are still at a premium while it seems other previous generation (SW and Leica) 8 and 10x 32's can often be had for a song. A year or two ago, a basically new UV HD+ 10x32 sold here in the classifieds for $1000 -- and that only after sitting for a while.

Mike

Yes in general Leica BN are cheaper than Zeiss FL but strange enough if im correct the BN’s have 30 years warranty while the FL’s have only 10 years warranty. I have a FL 7x42 and 8x56 and I don’t care about the warranty because i like them soo much. But price-value ratio IMHO I don’t think you can beat a good Leica BN. But prices on the second hand market go up. I don’t know if its “normal” inflation or something else.

 

[[email protected]]

Yes in general Leica BN are cheaper than Zeiss FL but strange enough if im correct the BN’s have 30 years warranty while the FL’s have only 10 years warranty. I have a FL 7x42 and 8x56 and I don’t care about the warranty because i like them soo much. But price-value ratio IMHO I don’t think you can beat a good Leica BN. But prices on the second hand market go up. I don’t know if its “normal” inflation or something else.

Not this one! It has been listed for about a year and a half on eBay. I paid less for LNIB Zeiss SF 8x32.

Leica Trinovid 8x32 BN Binoculars | eBay

It looks like it was bought and put away and never used, other than when it went on display for sale. All papers included as shown. Serial # starts with 166.

www.ebay.com

 

[Thotmosis]

Not this one! It has been listed for about a year and a half on eBay. I paid less for LNIB Zeiss SF 8x32.

Leica Trinovid 8x32 BN Binoculars | eBay

It looks like it was bought and put away and never used, other than when it went on display for sale. All papers included as shown. Serial # starts with 166.

www.ebay.com

There is ofcourse always the exception to the rule and if its for sale for more than 1 1/2 year its safe to say the the price is a maybe a little bit too the high…?

Exception that proves the rule - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Thotmosis]

A year or two ago, a basically new UV HD+ 10x32 sold here in the classifieds for $1000 -- and that only after sitting for a while.

That’s a real bargain, i wish i snatched that one.

 

[Thotmosis]

I don’t want drift too far off topic but talking about prices of used Zeiss and Leica’s…you can find really good deals here on if you are patience.

E.g.: https://www.birdforum.net/threads/zeiss-victory-8x42-fl-binoculars.456779/#post-4641681

My FL 7x42 and 8x56 where also purchased from fellow BF members.

 

[[email protected]]

There is ofcourse always the exception to the rule and if its for sale for more than 1 1/2 year its safe to say the the price is a maybe a little bit too the high…?

Exception that proves the rule - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I offered the seller $800 for them once about a year ago, and he said to never low ball him again like that again!

 

[GreenRooky]

I don’t want drift too far off topic but talking about prices of used Zeiss and Leica’s…you can find really good deals here on if you are patience.

E.g.: https://www.birdforum.net/threads/zeiss-victory-8x42-fl-binoculars.456779/#post-4641681

My FL 7x42 and 8x56 where also purchased from fellow BF members.

They were a bargain and would be 30% more from a second hand dealer in the UK

 

[Bentley03]

If you like the 8x32 EL's because of their lighter weight and compact size, and you want the higher magnification of 10x, get either an NL 10x32 or SF 10x32. These two are the best alpha 10x32's without a doubt. I have the Zeiss SF 10x32 and I love it. No problem at all with eye placement or blackouts, and if you use them primarily in the daytime, you will never miss the bigger aperture of a 42mm, and you will appreciate the smaller size and lighter weight. I have the NL in a 8x32, but the NL 10x32 is excellent also.

Choosing between the NL 10x32 and SF 10x32 is mainly personal preference. The NL has slightly sharper edges and a flatter field than the SF, but the SF has a little smoother focuser and for me a little better handling. I like having an NL 8x32 and an SF 10x32 because it is fun to change off because you appreciate the differences between the two. If money is not an issue, the NL 10x32 or SF 10x32 are the ones to get because they have a much bigger FOV, sharper edges and are more transparent than the EL, FL, SFL or UV. The NL and SF 10x32's are very sweet binoculars.View attachment 1579946

...and 6 days later those same 10x32 SF's are 'For Sale' in the BF classifieds. Ok.

 

[[email protected]]

...and 6 days later those same 10x32 SF's are 'For Sale' in the BF classifieds. Ok.

I bought a pair of NL 10x32's and I decided I like a flat field with the sharp edges the NL has over the more natural FOV and less sharp edges of the Zeiss SF.

When I would go back and forth between the NL 8x32 and the SF 10x32, The NL would always wow me more every time I used it because I prefer a flat field and sharp edges along with the big FOV.

It just comes down to personal preference. Some birders like the less flat field, more natural view of the SF. I do think the Zeiss SF is probably the better handling binocular with definitely the smoothest focuser, and it has less CA and a less glare.

If sharp edges aren't your cup of tea, I do think the SF is the best Zeiss for birding, especially the 8x32 and 10x32.

People moan and groan a lot about Swarovski's having bad armor and sticky focusers, but when it comes to optics, I don't think they can be beat.

 

[Sheepwatcher]

Thanks for all the input and guidance! I ended up buy-in a pair of EL SV 10x32s from a great forum member, and I'm loving them after a day-and-a-half of use. The ease of eye placement and transparency are slightly lower than my SF 10x42s, but that's expected, and I find the compromise of size/cost/performance to be exactly what I was looking for. People who advised that the handling on the EL 10x32 would not be problematic were spot on -- thanks for the guidance!

I also took a small detour before getting the Els, trying out a pair of Kowa Genesis 10x33s. I was intrigued by them, as I love my Kowa scope, and the reviews seemed much more divergent than most, some loving them and some really not. I discovered that I have a terminal case of alpha-itis. While I could appreciate the central sharpness and lack of CA that many praise, I found them disappointingly dim compared to my Els, and really lacking the ease of view that I've grown to appreciate. They went back to B&H.

 

[[email protected]]

Thanks for all the input and guidance! I ended up buy-in a pair of EL SV 10x32s from a great forum member, and I'm loving them after a day-and-a-half of use. The ease of eye placement and transparency are slightly lower than my SF 10x42s, but that's expected, and I find the compromise of size/cost/performance to be exactly what I was looking for. People who advised that the handling on the EL 10x32 would not be problematic were spot on -- thanks for the guidance!

I also took a small detour before getting the Els, trying out a pair of Kowa Genesis 10x33s. I was intrigued by them, as I love my Kowa scope, and the reviews seemed much more divergent than most, some loving them and some really not. I discovered that I have a terminal case of alpha-itis. While I could appreciate the central sharpness and lack of CA that many praise, I found them disappointingly dim compared to my Els, and really lacking the ease of view that I've grown to appreciate. They went back to B&H.

I have compared the Kowa Genesis to EL's also because so many birders praise them, but I am like you in that I found them dim and lacking the sparkle of the EL. Jackjack is pretty much correct in his review of the Kowa Genesis 10x33. I like how Jackjack just honestly cut's to the chase.

"To summarize, the Kowa genesis 10x33 is not close to Alpha bino optically IMO. you can find brighter and sharper binoculars for less money."

Brief review of Kowa genesis 10x33 (In comparison with Swarovski EL 10x32 and others

hello 'Prominar' lettering is feels pretty neat to me Next to Swaro EL 10x32. Kowa is shorter, but EL has better in hand feel because of open hinge. 1. Genesis 10x33 EL 10x32 2. Genesis 10x33 EL 10x32 3. Genesis 10x33 EL 10x32 (Genesis have a tone of orange creamy...

www.birdforum.net

 

[William Lewis]

I think the kowa's biggest fault is sample variation. I have a soft spot for the 8x33 so have tried them whenever I've seen a sample - some are exceptional, others are a bit rubbish. I think it's this more than anything else that leads to the variety of opinions from reviewers.