Some Advice appreciated (1 Viewer)

[Geologist]

My first post.

A little background. I am near to retiring geologist based in North Wales but have travelled extensively with work. Work is geology, but a lot of that is field based. As keen a geologist as I am, I can't look at rocks all day everyday and like most of my ilk, have a passing interest in other things I can see when in the field. Birds are one, but I'm not any sort of expert, just a guy with a passing interest.

So, I've always carried a pair of binoculars with me. A couple have come to grief, so always a cheap pair. Some were better than others and over the years I developed a preference for 10 x 42 binoculars. The ones that have passed through my hands (one pair, quite literally, on to rocks 50 metres below) never cost more than GBP 80.

As retirement looms one thing I've been asked is what I'll like as a retirement present. I thought first about what I didn't want (watch, clock etc) and then thought what about a decent pair of binoculars. So, I have a budget apparently of around GBP400 to spend on this purchase.

I have to confess ro being something of a recent lurker before joining this forum. I've read through a number of threads on specific binoculars, enjoyed a lot of the discussion and, I guess to no-one's surprise, remain undecided about which pair to request.

Things that are important to me are good image quality and the ability to focus as sharply as possible on the subject matter. The subject matter for me, living by the sea, tends to be shore birds, sea birds, passing boats of varying sizes and the occassional overhead aircraft. Maybe one day my interests will develop, but for now, pleasure is a stroll on a beach.

Having considered things myself, but not really having access to facilities where I can try binoculars out for myself readily, I have narrowed my choices (rightly or wrongly) down to a handful that fit into the funds available to me. My current list is:

• Bushnell 10x42 Legend Ultra HD (Sourced readily in the UK)
• Hawke Panorama 10x42 ED (UK company still selling this discontinued model - has it now resurfaced as the Athlon Cronus)
• Hawke Sapphire ED 10x42 (Sourced readily in the UK)
• Kowa Binoculars BD42 XD 10x42 (Sourced readily in the UK)
• Meopta MeoPro 10x42 HD ( This can be sourced from a number of German outlets within budget)
• Omegon Ultra HD 10x42 (available from Germany, well within my budget but from what I can make out is the same binocular as rather expensive (almost twice the price) Ostara Diamond ED Binoculars)
• Vanguard Endeavor II 10x45 ED (Sourced readily in the UK)
• William Optics Semi-Apo 10x42 ((available from Germany, appears to be a lower specifified version of the Omegon)
• Zeiss Terra 10x42 ED (I've used a Zeiss microscope for all my career, but have seen mixed reviews of their Terra range though)

I know this is not an exhausive list. What I'm trying to avoid though is having to import some brand that is not on sale on this side of the pond. I've had bad expeiences in the past when importing materials for work...excessive shipping costs, delays with customs, hefty customs duties and the dreaded VAT all can push the price up so that what seems a bargain no longer is that.

I'd really like to solicit some input from members of this forum as to which model they would go for if in my situation. I'm hoping it will help. In the meantime I'll try to get hold of some of the above, but I am guessing that against my current 7dayshop 10x42 all will appear fairly awesome!

I realise that similar requests have been made before. I have tried to do some homework beforehand but find that the more I look and read, the less I seem to understand. As this will be a rather special gift I'd like to be assured that I've given my final choice full consideration. Any thoughts would really be appreciated.

Thanks

James

 

[delia todd]

Hi James and a warm welcome to you from all the Staff and Moderators.

You don't say where in North Wales you are, but if you're within range of Martin Mere Wetlands, there's an In Focus shop there and, from memory they have a reasonable viewing window.

This will give you the opportunity to try out a few optics and maybe test some of the ones that our members might suggest as suitable.

I hope you enjoy your time here with us.

 

[gunut]

Id go with the Zeiss Terra........A company that's been around forever....stands behind their products...and is likely to be around for a long time to come....and a warranty is only good as long as the company is around....

I have a terra 8x32 and a 10x42 and think they are a v-good value ...and usually can be found for a discount price if you look around.......you wont find another binocular with a big 3 name on it for a better price....and like I said they stand behind all there products....

 

[Gijs van Ginkel]

Geologist, post 1,
I would certainly add the Meopta Meopro HD 10x42 to the list you presented in post 1. Its weight is with 695 grams very comfortable, field of view 117 meter, close focus 1,5 m, eye relief 17 mm, 1,3 rotations from close focus to infinity, very good handling comfort, transmission about 85%, very good color reproduction, very good handling comfort, price 579 euro. In my view it may be a better choice than the Terra ED 10x42.
Gijs van Ginkel

 

[mathare]

The Bushnells have build quality issues. Optically great and I think good value (under £200 if memory serves) but things like a bit of play in the focus wheel developing over time can become annoying. This is a significant gift as you say so go for quality.

If you have a budget of around £400 I would go for something towards the top end of that without paying over the odds. You do get what you pay for to a greater or lesser extent.

One thing to consider would be the ergonomics. Whether you get on with the open hinged style, for example. Personally, I don't. So regardless of how optically amazing a set of binoculars may be, if I can't get them comfortable in my hands that's going to detract from their use.

 

[paddy7]

My vote would be for the Vanguard Endeavor EDII (which would be 10x42 rather than 10x45), particularly as there is an EDiV imminent; i would imagine the price of the EDII would drop as a result.
You would have to check if you could live with the fast focus on these, but i think they seriously out-gun models much more expensive. Try first though!

 

[jring]

Hi James,

welcome to BF! Regarding your choice - I don't know if a used pair is an option in your situation - but with a bit of luck you might get a used pair of higher quality bins for 400 quid - I think there's a used Leica Trini 10x42 BA a few pages back in the classifieds atm (no, I don't know the seller)... this probably runs circles around all the mostly chinese roof bins in your list.

On the list I'd probably have a closer look at the Meopro - the Meopro are the only non-chinese bins on the list (assembled in USA, parts from Czech republic and probably the rest of the world) and were originally aimed at the 1000 dollar class...

The Bushnell is a not too shabby chin bin with a nice wide field of view for a 10x42, but it's currently on sale for $160 on amazon.com so it's not really in the 400 quid class. Zeiss Terras are chinese made too, but do carry the blue badge... some like it. Don't know the Hawke and Vanguard models...

I'd stay away from Omegon...

PS: If you don't mind an old-style, non-waterproof porro pair with not quite enough eye relief for glasses and slightly over budget... Nikon 10x35 E2 is an excellent choice and will need a pair seriously in 4 digit regions to beat optically...

Regards,

Joachim

 

[David in NC]

Welcome to the forum and congrats on your coming retirement! I have about 5 years left and it can't come soon enough. :king:

As you mention in your post, this type question is fairly regular, but I'm glad to say that unlike some forums there is always someone willing to help and not just admonish a new poster to use a search function. I think (in my case at least) we just enjoy helping folks find a good bin in their range of specifications for birding or other nature observation. Bins can be expensive and with the crazy amounts of marketing it can be hard to decipher which ones are really good long term investments.

The only thing I'll throw out (and this is a common reply in these forums) is noticing that all your choices are 10x, I would ask if you have considered going with 8x. I only ask for a couple reasons-

1. I know it is common for folks not intimate with binocular knowledge to want 10x or 12x when the multitude of selections are out there,

2. If I were only to have one "good" pair of bins, I would WITHOUT HESITATION want them to be 8x (or even 7x-but that's a wholly different can of worms!)

Obviously this is based on my set of circumstances. 75% of my binocular use is on my own property. My feeders in front of my house are only about 25 feet from my porch. The treeline across from my house is about 50 yards (the farthest I watch birds on that side) and the treeline on the back of the property runs from about 50 yards to 150 yards away.

There is also a well-founded school of thought that you see MORE with an 8x pair than you do with 10x in some circumstances. Sure the 10x makes a larger image but the 8x is brighter, noticeably WIDER, and has less shake (I'm 49 and I appreciate this, and can vouch for the point being valid.)

Regardless of what you decide, you already have some good advice above.

While I have used NEITHER I personally would lean to the Meoptas or Terras. I base this on tests and reviews I've read, along with their long-term corporate reputations.

 

[mfunnell]

While I can't speak to the 10x42s, I have the 8x42 Terra EDs and like them a whole lot. I do think Joachim's suggestion to look into the Meopta option is a good one. While I've never looked through a pair, they have a very good reputation and I'd like to try one or more of their offerings, some time.

...Mike

 

[jremmons]

The Meopro, if within budget, is of the ones I've tested, the best option you've listed. I purchased the 8x32 for a work truck pair of binos and though it is not on the level of my primary bins, it is a very good instrument, particularly with regards to color fidelity and build quality. It isn't as bright as some, but is bright enough. It is light and has a good Field of View as well.

I've heard great things about the Endeavour EDII but have not tried it. It doesn't seem to have particularly good transmission, however.

 

[Binastro]

Hi James,
I think it important to actually compare binoculars side by side, so a place that physically stocks them is best.

You may have seen me with my Broadhurst Clarkson leather covered ship's telescope over my shoulder climbing around the Great Orme in the summer of 1956 or 1957.

Incidentally, I have been meaning to drop some binoculars 20 or 30 metres onto concrete.
What happened to the binocular that dropped 50 metres onto rocks?
Did the actual body split or was it mainly the glass that suffered?
You seem to have done these tests already.

 

[typo]

James,

You probably know those 7dayshop 10x42s got a few mentions on the forum a few years back and for £17.50 delivered I couldn't resist. For that kind of money I was surprised how usable they actually were, but just on optical resolution they are over two fold worse than anything else I own, or have tried in a very long time. Anything on your list will be significantly better, but you may not find it quite as obvious as you might imagine, and I would urge you to get out and try a few if you can.

Apart from the Omegon, Williams and Athlon I am quite familliar with the binoculars on your list. I did a little report on the Hawke Panoramma. Only about 20 were released onto the market I believe, and unfortunately they had a slight coating problem which gave them a warmer bias than intended. I imagine the ones still out there will be very well handled by now. I don't know how it compares to the Athlon, but I do have the ZenRay Prime 10x42, which seems to be part of the same family and I'd think well worth considering.

I think the Vanguard Endeavour EDII is quite remarkable for the price but some do not like the warmer bias of the silver coated prisms, so try first. With my glasses I found the 10x less comfortable to use than the 8x. I know some would prefer Hawke Sapphire ED for colour for example.

The Kowa BD XD was pretty dreadful when it was launched with high levels of CA but it's now much improved. I don't think it's quite reached the levels of some on your list but is does have a bit more style to it, which some like.

Don't bother with the Bushnell Legend Ultra HD. It's replacements, the Legend L and Legend M are much better.

The Meopro I thought a mixed bag. Some things, like colour, it does well, but as I recall I wasn' quite convinced by the contrast and sharpness, but definitely worth a try as well.

I know others here would take issue with me, but I've been unimpressed by most of the Zeiss Terra samples I've seen. One had a pretty good effective resolution but really the rest did not reach the standard I'd expect. Trust your own eyes on that one.

I'm not sure where the Meopta parts are from, but the rest I've tried from your list I believe are all made in China. Not at all a bad thing these days for optical performance, but as a retirement gift it might be something you would hope to treasure for another 30 years. There are a few Japanese made options that fall in your price range that seem to be built to last and come with long warranties.

The Opticron HR WP is well under budget and we think the last remaining internally focussed (waterproof) porro prismed binocular on the market. The view is narrow and the colour a little warm, but the design offers a three dimensionality that few can match. Definitely one to consider if the traditional styling appeals. I like their Countryman HD but some prefer the more contemporary design of the Verano HD.

Kite, based in Belgium have a few well worth considering as well if you can track them down. I rather like the 8.5 and 10x50 in the Petrel range for example.

The Vortex Viper is a perennial favorite on the forum. Normally rather over budget, but there are deals if you shop around. It's smaller and lighter than some, but like some of the others listed the eye relief on the 10x is not particularly generous if you wear glasses (or might do in the future).

Good luck, and enjoy your retirement.

David

PS. The best opportunity to try most of these models and more is at BirdFair at Rutland Water or the 19th- 21st August. There are usually more than15 optics stands and acres of marquees devoted to birding and other ourdoors stuff. Looking for ideas for that big retirement holiday? It's the place to visit. Shame it's a long way from you.

 

[mathare]

The Vortex Viper is a perennial favorite on the forum. Normally rather over budget, but there are deals if you shop around. It's smaller and lighter than some, but like some of the others listed the eye relief on the 10x is not particularly generous if you wear glasses (or might do in the future).

I'm glad someone has thrown this into the mix. I was tempted to earlier but the true UK retailers have it at prices out of budget (most sell it at £500+). However, as David says there are deals to be done and it can be purchased for just over budget (around £430). I bought the same binoculars from the retailer offering them at that price a few months ago (to replace the Bushnells with the dodgy build quality!) and they are incredible for the price. They are the first bins I have used where the image seems to "pop" when in proper focus. As you spin the focus wheel the image is blurred, blurred, then bang! perfect focus. I didn't get that with the Bushnells.

This is a model I would certainly recommend a look at...

 

[pete_gamby]

RSPB Conwy would be one place to try optics that's close to you:

http://www.rspb.org.uk/discoverandenjoynature/seenature/events/details.aspx?id=tcm:9-388863

But you'll struggle to find something from your list there!

Pete

 

[dwatsonbirder]

If you don't mind buying second hand, you can own one of the best binoculars ever made (apparently) - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nikon-8x3...803528?hash=item3ac7b7a148:g:fgEAAOSwanRXhQX3 no link to the seller btw.

 

[Geologist]

To all who replied,

Thank you for your input. Quite simply, at almost any price point from £10 to £1000+ there are many different binoculars to choose from. At any given point, some, no doubt, are better than others, especially if there is a specific task in mind. As a geologist, I have learned that there are rarely any simple answers but its always helpful to get as much input as possible.

I don't know if a used pair is an option in your situation - but with a bit of luck you might get a used pair of higher quality bins for 400 quid

Joachim, I will certainly consider. As this will be presented to me I will have to mindful to get something that looks "new".

James,

You probably know those 7dayshop 10x42s got a few mentions on the forum a few years back and for £17.50 delivered I couldn't resist. For that kind of money I was surprised how usable they actually were, but just on optical resolution they are over two fold worse than anything else I own, or have tried in a very long time.

Those are the ones! And, having looked through a few of my friends' binoculars recently I realised just how dark these are. I certainly concur with all who say that it is not only imperative to try before you buy but also important to try to compare different types side by side, if possible. It's just that this latter part isn't always possible for two specific binoculars, hence its always useful to have other users opinions.

Incidentally, I have been meaning to drop some binoculars 20 or 30 metres onto concrete.
What happened to the binocular that dropped 50 metres onto rocks?
Did the actual body split or was it mainly the glass that suffered?
You seem to have done these tests already.

These were a little compact folding pair (8x25 Zenith? or Zenite? brand, knowning me, it was from the very inexpensive end of the market). These were actually quite robust, in a fairly solid metal casing. They dropped on to limestone (so, do dissimilar from concrete). One of the two prism housing must have taken the inital impact and broke away from the main body. The objective popped out and was not found. Although damaged beyond repair, I was impressed that the actual structure was not totally destroyed. A sad end nonetheless.

I will update with how this all works out.

Renewed thanks to all.

 

[Troubador]

Meopta or Zeiss Conquest HD!

Lee

 

[Sancho]

Meopta or Zeiss Conquest HD!

Lee

I'd go along with this advice. But just to confuse the issue (in the perennial spirit of BF optics forum), I'll make another suggestion. I've mostly used 8x bins in the past, and spent a stupid amount of money on too many different binos. At 54, I have come to prefer 10x, especially for the kind of usage you describe. I recently sold what is IMHO the best 10x I've ever used (to a goodly BF gentleman) - the Nikon SE 10x42, in favour of keeping a pair of Canon IS 10x30. This might seem illogical, as tripod mounted, the SE beat any other 10x I could find hands down. But I don't go birding enough anymore to keep an optics stable, and I found that, although the SE's are beautifully balanced in the hand, I could pick up a lot more detail of a bird (or ship or plane) with the Canons, because of the IS function. I bought the Canons on a whim a shop at Dublin airport for 300 euro. (They threw in an old-generation Kindle for an extra 16 euro, seriously, but I hate the Kindle...can't remember what I've read from day to day as well as I can with a real book....I hope that's the technology rather than age...). They are the 'old' version, i.e. not the 10x30II. Compact, light, but not waterproof and if you drop 'em, you bin 'em. Try to test a pair, the IS function might surprise you. Looking at distant ships, for example, I could read the names or the lettering on the cargo with the Canons, in situations where I couldn't with the SE's.