SFL 8x30 worth it? (3 Viewers)

[dries1]

I just thought the build quality was better on the FL than the SFL, and the new optics was not enough for the upgrade. IMO the SF is a better all around glass better than the SFL, but I have larger than normal hands, so the SF is more to my liking as far as viewer comfort, (that (SF) was a loaner I do not own one).
I have all the formats of the SE glass.

 

[[email protected]]

I just thought the build quality was better on the FL than the SFL, and the new optics was not enough for the upgrade. IMO the SF is a better all around glass better than the SFL, but I have larger than normal hands, so the SF is more to my liking as far as viewer comfort, (that (SF) was a loaner I do not own one).
I have all the formats of the SE glass.

I agree, the FL seems to built to take more abuse than the SFL. The SE's are amazingly good. I always thought I like the E2 better, but I like the better build quality and sharper edges on the SE 8x32. You really notice the difference in the view in the SE versus a roof. The SE has a very comfortable view.

 

[Swissboy]

The nice thing about their prepaid customs option is that’s it’s all-inclusive, unlike the usual DHL/FedEx/UPS where you end up with surprise administrative fees for customs clearance that often exceed the actual duties themselves. But yes, if they have an EU affiliate like in France, that will be preferable.

My experiment turned out to be quite successful: Unexpectedly, both orders arrived together and within a surprisingly short time. I had placed both orders on 20 June, and they arrived on 23 June. One shipped by B&H from the US, and the other shipped by the French Op-Tech reseller optechusa.fr from France. The one from the US came with a Swiss Post - Customs sticker saying it was exempt from taxes. So it was, as I had hoped and expected below the limit. Designed operator was Deutsche Post, and it came in a padded envelope. Not sure whether any of the above mentioned operators would have done an equally smooth and swift job and without charging extra. So the main problem might be how to get the sender to use the optimal "channel". Cudos to B&H in this case!
The one from France came in a simple wrapped paper envelope with an EXPORT Suivi sticker as Post Exprès. The simple unburaucratic way that I had been accustomed to, but was not sure whether it still works that way. Well these were both simple small things that could be shipped in envelopes. Not sure whether small parcels would be handled the same way.

 

[fazalmajid]

Well these were both simple small things that could be shipped in envelopes. Not sure whether small parcels would be handled the same way.

I've ordered fairly heavy things from B&H to England (DNP DS-820A dye-sub printer with paper rolls), they arrived just as quickly and smoothly, and even with the customs duties were significantly cheaper than buying local. Of course, you'll have to check the manufacturer's warranty policies for imported goods.

 

[NDhunter]

See also the “Lindy Effect”:

Lindy effect - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

He is the binocular version of a fashion victim, and a salutary warning or object lesson in the risks of buying too many binoculars. Often entertaining, though.

Regarding OP’s question, I think the SFL is worth it with the rebate but not at full list price if you are looking for pair of lightweight auxiliary binoculars. It makes more sense to me than the bigger 32mm class compared to full-size 42mm. It probably needs a thinner, lighter or detachable neck strap, the supplied one is too bulky, and the objective covers are very annoying.

What kind of rebate do these have ? I have been wondering about these.
Jerry

 

[fazalmajid]

What kind of rebate do these have ? I have been wondering about these.

In the UK at least Zeiss had a £175 off rebate off the SFL 8x30s if you traded in any binoculars, no matter what the condition. I bought a pair of £9 Chinese junk from Amazon to qualify. Not environmentally friendly, but the one binocular shop nearby that could have had used and broken junk grade ones wouldn't sell me any at a reasonable price.

 

[jremmons]

I'm not really sure why there are complaints/concerns of build quality; these seem just as well built as the SLC-Neu, SV, or Victory FL. Everything functions perfectly, no apparent manufacturing defects, they feel solid in hand, etc.

Used these a bit more in the past few days and they really do provide some fantastic views in such a convenient package. If anything, I occasionally find myself wondering if I shouldn't have gone for the 8x40 because these are almost too small and light; however, in the field it is very nice to have a nearly nonexistent pair of binoculars, especially when they are so incredibly easy to use.

 

[Swissboy]

I'm not really sure why there are complaints/concerns of build quality; these seem just as well built as the SLC-Neu, SV, or Victory FL. Everything functions perfectly, no apparent manufacturing defects, they feel solid in hand, etc.

Used these a bit more in the past few days and they really do provide some fantastic views in such a convenient package. If anything, I occasionally find myself wondering if I shouldn't have gone for the 8x40 because these are almost too small and light; however, in the field it is very nice to have a nearly nonexistent pair of binoculars, especially when they are so incredibly easy to use.

I can only agree. Definitely a "very close to perfect" product.

 

[MiddleRiver]

I'm not really sure why there are complaints/concerns of build quality; these seem just as well built as the SLC-Neu, SV, or Victory FL. Everything functions perfectly, no apparent manufacturing defects, they feel solid in hand, etc.

Used these a bit more in the past few days and they really do provide some fantastic views in such a convenient package. If anything, I occasionally find myself wondering if I shouldn't have gone for the 8x40 because these are almost too small and light; however, in the field it is very nice to have a nearly nonexistent pair of binoculars, especially when they are so incredibly easy to use.

It's funny, I got the 8x40 prior to a trip where I wanted to pack light. Lately I've been wondering if I might not have gone 'far enough' and whether I need to try the 8x30. If they are anywhere as nice as the 8x40's, the form-factor alone would be worth it (for trekking/hiking).

 

[pm42]

It's funny, I got the 8x40 prior to a trip where I wanted to pack light. Lately I've been wondering if I might not have gone 'far enough' and whether I need to try the 8x30. If they are anywhere as nice as the 8x40's, the form-factor alone would be worth it (for trekking/hiking).

This is why I have both. I prefer the 8x40 because the view is more comfortable but for hiking or when I have photographic gear, I prefer the 8x30. I need to be more careful with eye placement but the view is almost as good and they are really small and light.

 

[jremmons]

It's funny, I got the 8x40 prior to a trip where I wanted to pack light. Lately I've been wondering if I might not have gone 'far enough' and whether I need to try the 8x30. If they are anywhere as nice as the 8x40's, the form-factor alone would be worth it (for trekking/hiking).

I just have rather large hands and occasionally notice I seem confused as to where I can put them. That said, I can also use them 1 handed for a quick view which is kind of nice.

 

[mbb]

I just got my new SFL 8x30. I've used a lot of binoculars including the EL SV 8x32, Victory FL 8x32, Ultravid HD 8x32, Victory Pocket 8x25 and some other upper/mid-range 8x30ish binos. These are by far my favorite, despite limited time to use them. Crystal clear (duh), practically nonexistent weight, ease of use is superb. For an 8x30 and as a glasses wearer I expect some difficulty with getting everything to work right, but these were spot on after minor adjustments.
Of full sized bins, I maybe liked the 7x42 SLC-Neu better.

After trying one (SFL 8X30), I decided to keep my FLs, the SF 8X32 is another matter. However I am quite satisfied with my EDG, SVs and SEs.

Hi!,
Could you please share more about your view of the FL vs the SFL?
Mainly regarding viewing comfort (on the eye), stability (not too lightweight?), and image quality (CA, glare, colour/neutrality, brightness)?
(Context: I don't wear glasses.)
(I assume they are both sharp. FOV seems similar. I like my FL (I think with coatings v1, as from 2007), except for being sometimes 'dull' on grey weather compared to some other.)

 

[Patudo]

I'm not really sure why there are complaints/concerns of build quality; these seem just as well built as the SLC-Neu, SV, or Victory FL. Everything functions perfectly, no apparent manufacturing defects, they feel solid in hand, etc.

I think some binoculars just get that perception attached to them. New products, especially those that supersede a model famed for durability, do have a tendency to be viewed with suspicion with regard to build quality - eg. FLs when they first appeared ("plastic"), SF in some quarters.

Time will tell, I suppose - don't see too many complaints about FLs now. I have to admit the SF didn't blow me away in that respect when I handled it, but actual users don't seem to have reported too many problems (and we all know how folks are more than eager to broadcast any issues they get here or elsewhere - see the Swarovski rubber armouring thread).

 

[MiddleRiver]

I own 8x32FL and 8x30SLF. The FL's have become a favorite because for me, the ergos work. They are chunky enough not to feel too fiddly, I love the build quality, the focuser is superb,... and the IQ (including FOV) are excellent. I cannot find CA in them and tho not super sensitive to it, I do appreciate the crispness of of view. AND they are super light and compact. If I were to find a flaw, it would be that the 'eye box' (?) is old-school. I get the sense that high end binos have evolved to have larger diameter eyepieces - regardless of ER or FOV - which makes the size of the 'tv screen' larger in front of your eyeball. That makes it seem - even when comparing two binos with equal FOV - more immersive and less tunnel like. The SFL's belong to this trend (if not by a large margin), and specially the 8x40's seem much 'bigger' when I bring them to my eyes.

All that said, the 8x30's are in fact more demanding of good eye alignment. At first I occasionally had beans, blackouts, etc. But between the 8x30HG and the SFL I'll take the SFL (we own both actually).

I noted in several old threads and even online reviews, that people dismissed the FL's for being 'plastic'. Of course from a materials design POV that's ill-informed and erroneous. High-tech composite 'plastics' can be designed to have fantastic performance characteristics and to the user - which is after all what matters - in this case they provide two tangible and VERY good characteristics: they are very light and they are not as cold in the hand (noticeable and important to me since I bird year-round and not infrequently in below freezing temps.

I'm not sure if I'd pick the FL or SFL in 30/32, but suffice it to say that when offered the option of SFL or HG, my wife chose the SFL, and between the FL and HG I prefer the SFL. Granted, my HG's have a heavy'ish focuser and I'm not sure if I'm willing to try to get that loosened. Zeiss so far are hard to beat... I love the big rubber wheels with fast, light and smooth action.

 

[dries1]

Mbb,

Personally I found the FL much easier to use than the new sfl 8x30, focus wheel too close to objectives on the sfl for me.
Glare and CA are subjective, but I did not really see any difference with the time I spent with them.0
My friends wife likes the sfl, though she has not really used many other premiums, they fit her face fine, mine not so much. that is personal so you need to try it yourself to be sure. Personally with the FL I saw no need to change, esp for that kind of cash.
Your miles may vary.

 

[tenex]

I get the sense that high end binos have evolved to have larger diameter eyepieces - regardless of ER or FOV - which makes the size of the 'tv screen' larger in front of your eyeball. That makes it seem - even when comparing two binos with equal FOV - more immersive and less tunnel like.

There is no 'tv screen', only an exit pupil. 'Tunnel-like' is a matter of limited AFOV. There is no recent old-school bin with FOV equal to SF/NL to compare them to, except E II which is a completely different construction... and actually feels more 'immersive' to me. So it's hard to see what you mean by that word here.

 

[MiddleRiver]

There is no 'tv screen', only an exit pupil. 'Tunnel-like' is a matter of limited AFOV. There is no recent old-school bin with FOV equal to SF/NL to compare them to, except E II which is a completely different construction... and actually feels more 'immersive' to me. So it's hard to see what you mean by that word here.

My post never mentions SF or NL. I compared FL and SFL.

FOV for 8x32FL and 8x30SFL is 140m/1000 and 139.4/1000 respectively, according to B&H specs.
Wearing glasses, I can see the field stops on both and I can confirm that the FOV (real world, counting fenceposts or bricks or whatever) is virtually the same.
The SFL has a distinctly larger diameter hunk of glass at eye-piece. 24mm vs 19mm diameter (rounding to the nearest mm).
My math says the SFL ocular area is 60% larger.

I'm not sure how to explain the optics. But the SFL feels like I'm looking through a larger porthole or at least my eye is closer to the 'display', even tho the image portrayed is the same. Or at least that's the way I perceive it. Are you saying that if I'm seeing the full view (field stop just on edge of 'hard'), the view formed on my retina is still diff?

Since this 'effect' is something I note comparing bins and in fact it's often not correlated to FOV, then please explain it to me. Because I'm genuinely interested.

 

[dries1]

Middleriver, what is the APOV for the FL vs the SFL.

 

[MiddleRiver]

Middleriver, what is the APOV for the FL vs the SFL.

Don't know. And not having luck finding it.

It sounds like I'm not understanding FOV... And I'd love someone to explain AFOV to me and why - with what I think is the same 'view' - one design can seem more or less peephole than another.

 

[dries1]

Allbinos has 62.3 and 57.3 for the tangent formula on the FL. Zeiss has stated 63 for the SFL, not sure which way they calculated it.
These numbers are simular enough.