Recommendation for light and compact scope setup (1 Viewer)

[David_]

Hi there,

I have been birding since end of summer last year and have been using a Nikon Monarch 7 8x30 and really like it.
Now I'm thinking about getting a scope and need some help in deciding which scopes, tripods and heads I should look into.

My overall budget is around 800€ maximum and I am looking for a light and compact scope (same applies for head and tripod). I am aware that going for lightweight options is not necessarily the best way when choosing optics but that is really important for me. Why? I don't own a car and I am doing most of my birding trips by bike (last year up to 100km one way) and when the covid situation permits probably also in combination of public transportation and bike or hike.
When I do trips of more than 50 km (one way) I will often do them as multi day trips and will carry light sleeping gear (sleeping bag, sleeping pad, bivy bag), depending on trip length and weather forecast maybe some additional clothing and/or tarp plus food and water. Because of the way I travel I want to keep the weight as low as possible and even more important I will have a problem carrying bulky equipment, so compactness is even more important than weight.

What I am considering right now (prices are the cheapest prices I could find in Germany):

• Kowa TSN-501 ~260€
• Opticron MM4 50 Travelscope + 40831 HDF Eyepiece ~600€ (430€ + 170€)
• Nikon ED-50 + 13-30x/20-45x/25-56x MC Zoom ~760€ (490€ + 270€)

Head: Sirui VA-5 135€

Tripod: Sirui Traveller T-005kx (already own this one. Bought it for my MFT camera a few years ago)

The Nikon is a bit over my budget and I read some bad things about the build quality, with the constant shaking and vibrations it will have to endure on trails and gravel roads on my bike I tend to rule the Nikon ED-50 out. Are there any other scopes, eyepieces or heads I should consider? (seems like Opticron MM3 is not available in the EU, at least I did not find an online store outside of the UK were it was available)
I looks like I will be able to borrow a Kowa TSN-501 (and a head which would be way to heavy for my usage) for a couple of days to do some testing.

My existing tripod should be able to carry up to 4kg if I remember the specs correctly so I would like to use it. Are there any potential problems with the tripod I am not seeing right now and which would call for an upgrade?

Any recommendations are welcome!

 

[Mono]

Can't comment on the merits of the individual scopes. But there is a German store that sells Opticron.

Suche nach 'opticron'

www.optik-pro.de

 

[lmans66]

I would easily take the Opticron....nice scope...very compact. Great service if needed... Good product.

 

[jring]

Hi David,

all the options you listed are good for their price.

The Kowa 501 I tried was surprisingly good for the price, but of course only the zoom and not too wide.

Any reason why you chose a 30x wide EP for the MM4 and a (really narrow and short ER) zoom for the ED50 rather than the great fixed wide angle EPs?
Also the SDLv2 or v3 zoom EPs are really nice for the Opticron...

As for the tripod, my main gripe would be the achievable eye level - it seems to be 130 cm fully extended - add 15 for head and 12 for scope and it's below 160 cm...
And of course that is with center column up, which is not ideal for stability...
If you plan to take a stool and observe while seated, no problem...

Joachim

 

[Ratal]

I've taken the MM4 50 ED and SDL V2 zoom from Arctic Norway to Africa, across to the USA (Florida) and down to Chile. Not once did I think I needed anything 'more' - Not once. In fact, for many outings, a major gripe rising up from people carrying 80mm+ scopes was 'Wish I brought a light rig.' - Especially through swampy Florida and snow etched Norway.

Between the scope and my 8x32 Sightrons? My entire rig weights less than 2Kg. That's scope and bins.

 

[David_]

Thanks for the recommendations!

Can't comment on the merits of the individual scopes. But there is a German store that sells Opticron.

Suche nach 'opticron'

www.optik-pro.de

Thanks, I came across the shop and they have the MM4 50. The comment on non-availability was only about the MM3 (

Any reason why you chose a 30x wide EP for the MM4 and a (really narrow and short ER) zoom for the ED50 rather than the great fixed wide angle EPs?
Also the SDLv2 or v3 zoom EPs are really nice for the Opticron...

In general I was preferring a wide angle EP but for the Nikon ED 50 scope plus wide angle EP would put me too far over my budget so this why listed the zoom.

As for the tripod, my main gripe would be the achievable eye level - it seems to be 130 cm fully extended - add 15 for head and 12 for scope and it's below 160 cm...

Good point. Hadn't really considered the height. As I'm 195cm this will be an issue.

I've taken the MM4 50 ED and SDL V2 zoom from Arctic Norway to Africa, across to the USA (Florida) and down to Chile. Not once did I think I needed anything 'more' - Not once.

Thanks. Right now the MM4 50 ED ist my favorite but still unsure about zoom vs fixed EP. Initially I preferred the wider range of an fixed EP because during my limited experience with scopes I struggled with finding the birds the scoping because of the small angle. But I guess this is a matter of practice, when I first got my binoculars it also took me a while to get faster at finding birds with the binos.

Just received my dad's Kowa 501 which I can have for at least a couple of weeks (possibly longer) so I can test if the 501 is all I need or if I go for the Opticron. Also gives me the opportunity to check how much of an issue my short tripod is and if it's something I can upgrade later.

 

[jring]

Hi,

nice, please let us know how your dad's 501 performs... I remember to have been surprised at how well it did when I tried it... but that might also have been influenced by the Celestron Hummingbord right beside it - that didn't work too well...

As for finding birds with an angled scope... search for cable tie trick in here...

Joachim

 

[Ratal]

jring is correct. The MM4 50 set up accepts a cable tie, and I use a Sigma (6omm f2.8) lens hood that screws into the front end of the scope to give me a couple of inches of protection from overhead sun and snow. Works a treat. Yes, seriously.

 

[David_]

Just wanted to give a short feedback. I used the Kowa 501 for a couple of weeks but I didn‘t really enjoy it. The image always seemed a bit dark compared to my Nikon Monarch 7 binos. Due to not having a real comparison to other scopes I don‘t know if it’s just this unit, the 501 model in general or if all smaller scopes suffer from this.
I understand that the image get‘s darker with increased magnification but it just felt too much. Is it normal that an 8x30 bino delivers a brighter image than a 20x-40x scope with 50mm diameter?
Does anyone know how the 501 in general performs compared to the Opticron MM4 50? Would the MM4 get me a brighter image?

Thanks for your help

 

[jring]

Hi,

in general, yes it's normal that your bins are brighter than your scope - unless you have a huge scope at really low mag.

8x32 = 4mm exit pupil, 50mm spotter @20x = 2.5mm and @40x = 1.25mm. Your eye's pupil will be larger than 2.5mm in anything other than bright sunshine, so yes, a bit darker image is always expected.

At least for me personally this impression vanishes after a few seconds when the brain has adapted...

Joachim

 

[David_]

Hi,

in general, yes it's normal that your bins are brighter than your scope - unless you have a huge scope at really low mag.

8x32 = 4mm exit pupil, 50mm spotter @20x = 2.5mm and @40x = 1.25mm. Your eye's pupil will be larger than 2.5mm in anything other than bright sunshine, so yes, a bit darker image is always expected.

At least for me personally this impression vanishes after a few seconds when the brain has adapted...

Joachim

Thanks for the explanation. It was just darker than I expected but as I said I don‘t have the experience to compare to other scopes.
I think I will ask other birders I meet in the field if they would let me have a look through their scope to get some impressions of other scopes and than reevaluate the Kowa (from a price point and portability it just looks very appealing). But I will probably go with something else (maybe the Opticron MM4 50) as I know myself well enough to know that if I‘m not 100% convinced something is the right fit for me when buying I will regret it later on.

Between the scope and my 8x32 Sightrons? My entire rig weights less than 2Kg. That's scope and bins.

What tripod and head do you use? Considering the weight of scope and bins 2kg seems quite light. I am still thinking about switching to another tripod as the one I have now is a bit short and I would also need to buy a head as I borrowed one together with Kowa.

 

[dwatsonbirder]

Just a thought, was the Kowa 501 the current version or the original version?

IMO, the Nikon ED50 cannot be beaten in terms of size/weight to performance in my opinion, the Opticron scopes are excellent, but the rubber armouring adds to the weight.
Here is an ED50 (snazzy pink, but comes with a SOC if desired) and a velbon Luxi tripod, if bought together would be 460 euros and weigh approx 2kg. The tripod is very compact, and I've used one with my ED50 when travelling light overseas.

 

[Rotherbirder]

The zoom eyepiece on the Kowa doesn't help as it can't be changed. The Opticron would give you more flexibility as the eyepiece can be changed for a fixed power of your choice, potentially giving you a brighter, sharper image. It also has ED elements which contribute to a sharper image with reduced chromatic aberration. The body of the Kowa is largely polycarbonate (plastic) which reduces the weight, while that of the Opticron is alloy & polycarbonate which makes it more robust but, of course, the Opticron is substantially more expensive than the Kowa. Set your parameters (price/weight/optical requirements etc), try them out - together if possible - and make your choice accordingly.

RB

 

[jring]

Hi,

if you must, try the MM4 (and make sure to get the SDLv2 or v3) EP - that one is really nice. And since you already have a borrowed 501, please post a comparative review...

My expectation is that the MM4 with SDLv2/3 will be winning mainly due to its wider and sharp to the edge field.
Differences in brightness will depend on the magnification used (the MM4 with SDL combo has a low magnification of 12x which in fact will have the same 4mm exit pupil as your 8x32 bins and at the upper end it's 36x - so not much different from the Kowa @40x).

For less than 2kg including 8x32 bins and scope (and I would assume some kind of support for the scope), you will have to count grams...
Make that a light pair of 8x32 (like your M7 8x30), light scope (like the 501) and a monopod w/o head).

PS: and yes, Daniel's remark on the 501 version is indeed relevant... there was an old version called Kowa TS-501 which is heavier (metal body), has a removable EP (although not the usual Kowa small body standard) and is only single-coated (which might warrant for loss of brightness). Since you wrote TSN-501 in the first post, I did assume the current one...

PPS: As for Nion ED50 - yes, they're great, although I would strongly recommend a fixed wide angle EP for that (unlike the zoom on the pink one) as the Nikon classic fieldscope zooms are really narrow and have no eye relief...

Joachim

 

[David_]

Just a thought, was the Kowa 501 the current version or the original version?

It is the current one.

if you must, try the MM4 (and make sure to get the SDLv2 or v3) EP - that one is really nice. And since you already have a borrowed 501, please post a comparative review...

That is what I think I will do.

Thanks for all the input

 

[qwerty5]

Hi there,

I have been birding since end of summer last year and have been using a Nikon Monarch 7 8x30 and really like it.
Now I'm thinking about getting a scope and need some help in deciding which scopes, tripods and heads I should look into.

My overall budget is around 800€ maximum and I am looking for a light and compact scope (same applies for head and tripod). I am aware that going for lightweight options is not necessarily the best way when choosing optics but that is really important for me. Why? I don't own a car and I am doing most of my birding trips by bike (last year up to 100km one way) and when the covid situation permits probably also in combination of public transportation and bike or hike.
When I do trips of more than 50 km (one way) I will often do them as multi day trips and will carry light sleeping gear (sleeping bag, sleeping pad, bivy bag), depending on trip length and weather forecast maybe some additional clothing and/or tarp plus food and water. Because of the way I travel I want to keep the weight as low as possible and even more important I will have a problem carrying bulky equipment, so compactness is even more important than weight.

What I am considering right now (prices are the cheapest prices I could find in Germany):

• Kowa TSN-501 ~260€
• Opticron MM4 50 Travelscope + 40831 HDF Eyepiece ~600€ (430€ + 170€)
• Nikon ED-50 + 13-30x/20-45x/25-56x MC Zoom ~760€ (490€ + 270€)

Head: Sirui VA-5 135€

Tripod: Sirui Traveller T-005kx (already own this one. Bought it for my MFT camera a few years ago)

The Nikon is a bit over my budget and I read some bad things about the build quality, with the constant shaking and vibrations it will have to endure on trails and gravel roads on my bike I tend to rule the Nikon ED-50 out. Are there any other scopes, eyepieces or heads I should consider? (seems like Opticron MM3 is not available in the EU, at least I did not find an online store outside of the UK were it was available)
I looks like I will be able to borrow a Kowa TSN-501 (and a head which would be way to heavy for my usage) for a couple of days to do some testing.

My existing tripod should be able to carry up to 4kg if I remember the specs correctly so I would like to use it. Are there any potential problems with the tripod I am not seeing right now and which would call for an upgrade?

Any recommendations are welcome!

I would recommend the Vortex Razor HD 11-33x50, it weighs 25 oz. There is one on B&H for $699 (575 euro): Vortex Razor HD 11-33x50 Spotting Scope (Angled Viewing)
Here is a review: New Vortex Razor50mm Scope Review
You should be able to get a good tripod for under 200 euro

 

[mTown]

I was faced with the same decision three years ago and wanted to buy a compact spotting scope. Finally, after a long search, I bought a second-hand Nikon ED50 with the 13x-40x zoom eyepiece. I am still very satisfied with it and also take it with me on trips. The quality of the zoom eyepiece is really good and is sufficient for 90 % of all activities in my opinion. I also read about the supposed problem with the build quality, but I haven't had any bad experiences with it. When I go cycling, I simply pack the spotting scope together with a tripod in my backpack. Nothing has broken yet.

After that I bought a Nikon ED82, which I now use as my main spotting scope. The good thing is that I can swap the eyepieces between the scopes.

If you have any questions, please feel free to write me a direct message (also in German).

 

[Hermann]

Finally, after a long search, I bought a second-hand Nikon ED50 with the 13x-40x zoom eyepiece. I am still very satisfied with it and also take it with me on trips. The quality of the zoom eyepiece is really good and is sufficient for 90 % of all activities in my opinion. I also read about the supposed problem with the build quality, but I haven't had any bad experiences with it.

The first problem (unravelling of the tripod thread) was solved in later production models that have a solid tripod bush. I had that with my first ED50. Solved by using lots of expoxy, a long screw and an adapter plate. I never had the second problem of the body falling apart. However, I think it's a good idea to be a bit careful with the scope. The larger Fieldscopes (60mm, 78mm and 82mm) are far more robust - but also a lot larger and heavier.

After that I bought a Nikon ED82, which I now use as my main spotting scope. The good thing is that I can swap the eyepieces between the scopes.

The main problem with the ED50 (and all the other Fieldscopes) is that you can't get the wideangle eyepieces anymore, except for some of the large and heavy DS eyepieces. That's a real shame, because in many situations wideangle eyepieces work better than the narrow Nikon zooms.

Hermann

 

[DMW]

Just a thought, was the Kowa 501 the current version or the original version?

IMO, the Nikon ED50 cannot be beaten in terms of size/weight to performance in my opinion, the Opticron scopes are excellent, but the rubber armouring adds to the weight.
Here is an ED50 (snazzy pink, but comes with a SOC if desired) and a velbon Luxi tripod, if bought together would be 460 euros and weigh approx 2kg. The tripod is very compact, and I've used one with my ED50 when travelling light overseas.

That's a good find. You used to be able to buy Nikon ED50 scopes from Amazon Japan for half the price you paid in the UK, but I can't see them listed now.

I've been using and ED50 with the x27 eyepiece as my only scope for a few years. It's remarkably good for its size, but performance really does drop off in low light. It's never going to compete with a good quality full sized scope.
I also have the Velbon Luxi tripod. I would say it's an ideal match if saving weight is your main priority.
However, if I put the ED50 on my honking great video tripod with fluid head, it's a far superior real world image. It's easy to overlook just how much image quality is lost through even small vibration, and a lightweight tripod is always going to suffer in this regard.