Rail for ID Eastern Nebraska (1 Viewer)

[Tero]

It's the left bird in each photo. The right one is a Virginia Rail.

 

[KenM]

Presume a King Rail Tero?

Cheers

 

[Tero]

It would be a juvenile, then. An adult was found in the same pond.

However, the bird does not breed this far out of its range. There have been birds every few years, but not pairs and no proven nest. so it's easier to get an OK from a reviewer for an adult bird. My reviewer got back and says they look like two Virginia Rails at different stages of growth. I got a photo of four, I thought, but badly out of focus.

 

[Butty]

If the one at right is Virginia rail, then why aren't they both? - I don't see any obvious difference. But comparison with the veg, etc., makes it/them look too big for Virginia rail? In which case aren't they both immature king rails?

 

[Tero]

They are both Virginia Rails, of different stages of development. There are up to 7 in that pond. Immature King Rails are less likely to appear here than adults that failed to find a mate.

 

[Butty]

They are both Virginia Rails

Good to know. But in that case I'm not clear why you asked the question?
What distinguishes the two birds as being at different stages of development?

 

[Tero]

Those two birds are different in size.

 

[Tero]

I did go to the pond again. I got a look at the adult King Rail. Here is the first photo. It walked among the smaller Virginia Rails and was clearly bigger. eBird listing will have to wait a week so I am not adding it to the year list yet.

 

[Butty]

Those two birds are different in size.

I disagree: they're just at different angles to the camera. And slight differences in their age/development wouldn't produce any significant difference in size.
I'm still not clear why the original two birds aren't both immature king rails.

 

[Tero]

I disagree: they're just at different angles to the camera. And slight differences in their age/development wouldn't produce any significant difference in size.
I'm still not clear why the original two birds aren't both immature king rails.

King Rails have not been reported to nest in Nebraska. There are some records in Iowa and Kansas.

 

[Tero]

This is what the juvenile Virgiania Rails look like in that same pond. None of them have an orange breast (the adult look) and the facial pattern is not much to go on.

 

[Butty]

Thanks. I'm afraid none of that addresses my points - but never mind.

 

[njlarsen]

King Rails have not been reported to nest in Nebraska.

Does not really exclude that this could be the first instance of such. I would be more comfortable with an argument that the bill has the wrong size or shape, that the plumage is wrong, or something.
Niels

 

[Tero]

You work with what info you have. If we had seen two King Rails, you could start talking about offspring. I would not be able to distinguish the juvenile of the two rails in areas where they appear. I would of the adults. There is a nice lineup at the bottom of this page.

Virginia Rail Overview, All About Birds, Cornell Lab of Ornithology

A secretive bird of freshwater marshes, the Virginia Rail often remains hidden in dense vegetation, but its loud grunting may give away its presence. As it slowly pokes its way through the marsh, you might get a glimpse of its reddish bill, black-and-white barred sides, and its twitching tail...

www.allaboutbirds.org

 

[Butty]

This has become confused. All we are trying to do is to identify the two birds in your first two photos. Given that both king rail and Virginia rail breed in the general region, breeding or absence of breeding of either species at the observation site is irrelevant unless the photos are obviously of very recently fledged juveniles - which they are not.
You started by indicating that the right-hand bird was Virginia rail and you didn't know the left-hand bird. Then you said (without giving reasons) that they were both Virginia rails. Now you say that, in fact, you don't know how to separate juvenile king rail from juvenile Virginia rail. And, given that you say you know the ID of both birds, I'm still not clear about the purpose of this thread.

 

[Tero]

The reviewer for my region decided they were both Virginia Rails.

As far as any ID thread goes, it serves no purpose to accuse the thread starter of this or that. If you wish, you can post any number of posts reviewing the ID skills of any of the members discussing.

This is the species account.

https://birds.outdoornebraska.gov/king-rail/

I will not comment on this thread anymore. If something is reported locally here, then I will return to post any more details. Not likely, though.

 

[Butty]

As far as any ID thread goes, it serves no purpose to accuse the thread starter of this or that. If you wish, you can post any number of posts reviewing the ID skills of any of the members discussing.

I'm sorry that you feel this way. I have not accused you of anything, nor 'reviewed your ID skills' - so I should prefer it if you withdraw those remarks. Thanks.

 

[tom baxter]

I don’t have much experience with this stage of development in Virginia Rails, I’ve seen a couple, and I have no experience with King Rails at this stage. However reviewing photos of immature King and Virginia Rails on Macaulay library yours seem to be in line with Virginia and not King. I don’t feel that my assessment is close to conclusive, but I’m not seeing King Rails that show rufous in the wings, and most of them show very dark centered tertials with buff borders. There are a couple King Rail photos in Macaulay that look like yours, but I wonder how many birders have any experience distinguishing these and whether perhaps they are misidentified. I imagine the vast majority of experienced observers don’t often see immature King Rails.