Possible Pugsley's Marsh Orchid (1 Viewer)

[kevtubb]

I am led to believe reading various websites that there is a possibility of Pugsley's Marsh Orchids at Greywell Moors in Hampshire.

I went there on Saturday and certainly saw Southern Marsh Orchid.

Reading the various literature etc., I am wondering if these pictures (aad/aaf) are good candidates for Pugsley's Marsh Orchid

I know there is a lot of variation and hybrids!

The third and fourth photos (aaa / aah) I think are Southern Marsh Orchids

 

[Butty]

Seems mostly these days to be called narrow-leaved marsh-orchid Dactylorhiza (majalis) traunsteinerioides. I've never seen it, and looking briefly at the conflicting info about it, I suspect that it may remain (along with most of the world's tyrant flycatchers) something that I will be happy never to identify. Thus, some texts/maps reckon it doesn't occur below a line from the Severn to the Wash - and many apparently-well-identified photos look nothing much like description/illustrations of it.

Dactylorhiza traunsteineri | Online Atlas of the British and Irish Flora

I would have called your photos 3-4 southern marsh orchid, as you say - and 1-2 hybrids between early marsh orchid and southern marsh orchid. But what do I know.

 

[THE_FERN]

Seems mostly these days to be called narrow-leaved marsh-orchid Dactylorhiza (majalis) traunsteinerioides. I've never seen it, and looking briefly at the conflicting info about it, I suspect that it may remain (along with most of the world's tyrant flycatchers) something that I will be happy never to identify. Thus, some texts/maps reckon it doesn't occur below a line from the Severn to the Wash - and many apparently-well-identified photos look nothing much like description/illustrations of it.

Dactylorhiza traunsteineri | Online Atlas of the British and Irish Flora

I would have called your photos 3-4 southern marsh orchid, as you say - and 1-2 hybrids between early marsh orchid and southern marsh orchid. But what do I know.

Is it me or do the maps on the BSBI disagree?

... The BSBI hectad map seems to show this as a northern species, the others have it in E Anglia etc. When it says it's much better known now, does that mean the northern [only] map is right..?

 

[Butty]

Is it me or do the maps on the BSBI disagree?

It's not you - or me. It's the maps - I expect! That's why I drew attention to it in my original comment.

When it says it's much better known now, does that mean the northern [only] map is right..?

That's my assumption, and that fits with the Severn–Wash comment in Blamey. Or maybe it's that view that's now out of date! I think this is one for bot heroes - which lets me out

 

[kevtubb]

Thanks all for the input. I have read closely the WildGuides orchids book and taking into consideration the northerly bias of the species and the characteristics laid out in the orchids book I think I will stick to Southern Marsh Orchid - it is the most likely and can see no pictures of mine that will definitely be Pugsley's

 

[James Lowther]

Can’t help with the ID but according to the Harrap pocket guide southern “pugsley’s” (e.g. those in hants) have now been described as ssp schoenophila of southern marsh on the basis of genetics.
If that’s the case then true pugsley’s would not occur in southern England
Cheers
James

 

[Swift]

Any idea on this?

 

[Swift]

The spots on the leaves confused me

 

[Butty]

The location should be given for any ID. But, subject to it being suitable, I would guess...
1. Hybrids between early marsh orchid and southern marsh orchid.
2. Southern marsh orchid.
(But you should really start a fresh thread for these.)