Poll - Do you agree or disagree with the AOS's recent decision to abandon the use of eponymous bird names? (2 Viewers)

[MJB]

I just hate Eastern and Western Bonelli's Warbler simply based on the construction of the name. I just feels weird to keep the patronym and add a modifier in front of it. Better to have either new patronyms or just a new name. Certainly there had to be better options than what we got?

Whereas I, having seen only Bonelli's Warbler in many places previously, found the modifiers Eastern and Western an ideal means of envisaging the separation of the distributions. I liked the fact that the new English names also provided a lasting reminder of the previous history of the pre-split name.
MJB

 

[KenM]

……If it works, don’t mend it!😩

 

[Helsinki Birder]

……If it works, don’t mend it!😩

One of those clichés which again, I never understood.

You drive a car, you don't ride a horse anymore.

You have a smartphone, because no one has a landline anymore.

We "mend" things that work all the time, because...well ...time moves on.

Owen

 

[Trinovid]

One of those clichés which again, I never understood.
We "mend" things that work all the time, because...well ...time moves on.

Most cliches don’t work if you really think about them, but they sound clever despite being the opposite and cause more trouble than help.

 

[Farnboro John]

Most cliches don’t work if you really think about them, but they sound clever despite being the opposite and cause more trouble than help.

Perhaps you and Owen haven't worked in Government (and especially not around the military). Change is built into the system because everyone new into a job, in a system of limited term postings, wants to make their name and earn promotion: nobody has ever done it by saying "hey, the last guy here had things exactly right" so everybody makes at least one change and the chances of it being an improvement are about one in infinity squared.

"If it ain't broke don't fix it" ought to be the first line in every staff training manual and reinforced with regular beatings.

John

 

[KenM]

One of those clichés which again, I never understood.

You drive a car, you don't ride a horse anymore.

You have a smartphone, because no one has a landline anymore.

We "mend" things that work all the time, because...well ...time moves on.

Owen

Being a partial Luddite and having watched lots of tinkering over the years, I’ve come to the conclusion that very often, a bit like “re-inventing the wheel”.. A-a-h!…another cliche😮 can be an excuse for self promotion.

 

[Trinovid]

"If it ain't broke don't fix it" ought to be the first line in every staff training manual…

That would be “Do no harm, and if you don’t know, don’t do.”

 

[KenM]

That would be “Do no harm, and if you don’t know, don’t do.”

Never heard that cliche afore!….did you just invent it?🤣

 

[qwerty5]

reinforced with regular beatings.

🤣 That's enough to get your name erased from history.

 

[Trinovid]

Never heard that cliche afore!….did you just invent it?

Yeah, not a fan of cliches and prefer simple instructions too!

 

[Lerxst]

Thanksgiving thoughts about a guy with two (South American) birds named for him:

An Unusual Day of Thanks in September, 1869 - Birding Despite Disability

“Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire.”― Gustav Mahler Imagine that it is an autumn day in Manhattan, the year is 1869, and a huge party is taking place. You might learn from others in the crowd ― if you hadn't been reading the papers ― that similar festivals were

legallyblindbirding.net

 

[jurek]

Naturalists from Poland would rightly object why Americans are lobbying to remove patronyms from Taczanowski's Tinamou, Taczanowski's Ground Tyrant, Jelski's Chat Tyrant and Jelski's Black Tyrant. These birds are named for Polish ornithologists Wladyslaw Taczanowski and Konstanty Jelski.

Culture of Poland was largely obliterated by Nazi during Word War 2 in a planned and organized way. Polish cherish every little mention of their scientists and famous people abroad.

 

[Jos Stratford]

Naturalists from Poland would rightly object why Americans are lobbying to remove patronyms from Taczanowski's Tinamou, Taczanowski's Ground Tyrant, Jelski's Chat Tyrant and Jelski's Black Tyrant. These birds are named for Polish ornithologists Wladyslaw Taczanowski and Konstanty Jelski.

Culture of Poland was largely obliterated by Nazi during Word War 2 in a planned and organized way. Polish cherish every little mention of their scientists and famous people abroad.

Finally, a good reason to abolish patronyms

 

[Elkhornsun]

I have long disliked the use of people's names for anything as it has a western European bias. In the USA the renaming of Mount McKinley to Denali was a positive move. There is also a problem with consistency and that is why the Latin names are so much better for animals and plants. The same plant for example can have different common names depending on the country or in the USA, on the state.

 

[Trinovid]

I have long disliked the use of people's names for anything as it has a western European bias. In the USA the renaming of Mount McKinley to Denali was a positive move.

Are you suggesting that no other cultures have also done so? I've always liked the name Denali, but as with most of us, we still use both names somewhat interchangeably.

I like places named after people when those people were actually there, founding their own little town, or some-such, but am basically on the same wavelength as you when it comes to the equivalent of pandering.

 

[Paul Chapman]

I have long disliked the use of people's names for anything as it has a western European bias. In the USA the renaming of Mount McKinley to Denali was a positive move. There is also a problem with consistency and that is why the Latin names are so much better for animals and plants. The same plant for example can have different common names depending on the country or in the USA, on the state.

For me, there are two significant flaws in this contribution.

Firstly, the comment about consistency is clearly flawed being used to support a decision to revise about 180 names and cause chaos in comparisons to historic references and recording. This is anything but consistency and my primary objection to the proposal is for the reasons for which you complain about vernacular names any way. Why make it worse? The perceived benefit of the change is superficial and largely illusory.

Secondly, the air of superiority in this delivery is exposed by the use of "Latin name" for scientific name. These names are derived from many sources including Latin.

Sadly, this has traction and will be implemented because it has gone public without consensus or consultation and the flaws in the plan will only be considered by those delivering it in hindsight...

AOS Announces Plan to Revise Eponymous Bird Names—What Does That Mean for eBirders? - eBird

If you had the opportunity to name the species on the left what would you call it? The American Ornithological Society (AOS) is embarking on a long-term process to revise English common names of birds in the Americas named after people, starting with a pilot program focused on the US and Canada.

ebird.org

Back to looking for Hylacola pyrrhopygia (aka Fire-rumped Hylacola). Pyro being Greek of course... The non-patrionymic name for the species is actually Chestnut-rumped Heathwren but most Australians have suggested to me that Shy and Chestnut-rumped should be named the other way round.

😀

All the best

Paul

 

[Andy Adcock]

Secondly, the air of superiority in this delivery is exposed by the use of "Latin name" for scientific name. These names are derived from many sources including Latin.



😀

All the best

Paul

I think that scientific names are comprised of possibly 50% Greek and the fact that Europeans are over represented in the nomenclature is that Europeans found most of the species involved!

Meanwhile, notable birds from my recent Ghana trip, just to annoy some people.

Forbe's Plover
Cassin's Honeybird
Willcock's Honeyguide
Preuss's Cliff Swallow
Sharpe's Apalis
Puvel's Illadopsis (my favourite name)
Usherr's Flycatcher
Johanna's Sunbird
Maxwell's Black Weaver
Vieillot's Black Weaver
Wilson's Indigobird

 

[raymie]

Some of you may find interest in this petition:

Petition to AOS Leadership on the Recent Decision to Change all Eponymous Bird Names

Can you spare a minute to help this campaign?

chng.it

 

[Paul Chapman]

Some of you may find interest in this petition:

Petition to AOS Leadership on the Recent Decision to Change all Eponymous Bird Names

Can you spare a minute to help this campaign?

chng.it

A brave and principled petition particularly by the more notable initial supporters and when having a voice against such an approach can easily be misrepresented. It will be interesting to see the level of interest from the birding community as for me, it is easier to garner support for the proposal from non-birders who have and will never have any interest in birding....

519 signatures in 4 days does not dent the initial 2,500 person petition which seems from this to the basis of the AOS decision.

For balance, interesting to read this website:-

Bird Names For Birds

Because birds don't need eponymous or honorific common names.

birdnamesforbirds.wordpress.com

It is still an incorrect decision though.

All the best

Paul

 

[Lerxst]

519 signatures in 4 days does not dent the initial 2,500 person petition which seems from this to the basis of the AOS decision.

How many days did it take to get the 2,500?

Should one expect the same level of online engagement and activism between younger (and generally more left-leaning) and older (generally more conservative) birders?

Much has been made about the biased nature of the poll in this thread, which shows a clear preference for NOT changing the names. I'd argue that the 2,500 vs 500 comparison is even more difficult to draw conclusions from.

It all gets back to the simple idea that the AOS should have taken the efforts to survey its members, at the very least. A careful sampling taken from the larger birding community, both in the USA and internationally, would be ideal.