Poll - Do you agree or disagree with the AOS's recent decision to abandon the use of eponymous bird names? (1 Viewer)

[angusmcoatup]

Your mission, should you choose to accept it: Replace the eponyms on all Phylloscopus warblers with accurate descriptive names that capture their differences. Go.

Western Bonelli's warbler,
Eastern Bonelli's warbler,
Hume's leaf warbler
Brooks's leaf warbler,
Pallas's leaf warbler,
Tytler's leaf warbler,
Radde's warbler,
Tickell's leaf warbler,
Ijima's leaf warbler,
Laura's woodland warbler,
Whistler's warbler,
Bianchi's warbler,
Alström's warbler,
Martens's warbler,
Blyth's leaf warbler,
Claudia's leaf warbler,
Hartert's leaf warbler,
Kloss's leaf warbler,
Davison's leaf warbler


There are many, many other Phylloscopus besides these, which look similar, so be sure your new names don't create confusion relative to those.

Easily done, use song or calls to name them. Agree on a standard source then away we go. Humes leaf warbler becomes Bzzzzzzzzzeo Warbler (Collins), Blyths becomes Tsi-tsslehlee-tsslehlee Warbler (Ebird) and so on. We’re all fine with Chiffchaff after all. Instantly descriptive.

 

[johnallcock]

Your mission, should you choose to accept it: Replace the eponyms on all Phylloscopus warblers with accurate descriptive names that capture their differences. Go.

Western Bonelli's warbler,
Eastern Bonelli's warbler,
Hume's leaf warbler
Brooks's leaf warbler,
Pallas's leaf warbler,
Tytler's leaf warbler,
Radde's warbler,
Tickell's leaf warbler,
Ijima's leaf warbler,
Laura's woodland warbler,
Whistler's warbler,
Bianchi's warbler,
Alström's warbler,
Martens's warbler,
Blyth's leaf warbler,
Claudia's leaf warbler,
Hartert's leaf warbler,
Kloss's leaf warbler,
Davison's leaf warbler


There are many, many other Phylloscopus besides these, which look similar, so be sure your new names don't create confusion relative to those.

I don't think it's too difficult to come up with alternative names. Especially if you accept that the name doesn't need to exclude all other species (which is true for many accepted names in the genus: Greenish, Green, Two-barred, Yellow-browed, Wood, Willow, Chinese, Japanese, etc. - no-one is pushing to change these).

So here's some suggestions from a few minutes of brainstorming. I'm not familiar with several species on the list, so I'm sure people who know them could come up with better suggestions.

Western Bonelli's warbler: Green-winged Leaf Warbler
Eastern Bonelli's warbler: Balkan Leaf Warbler
Hume's leaf warbler: Wheezing Leaf Warbler
Brooks's leaf warbler: Acacia Leaf Warbler
Pallas's leaf warbler: Coronet Leaf Warbler
Tytler's leaf warbler: Kashmir Leaf Warbler
Radde's warbler: Short-billed Leaf Warbler
Tickell's leaf warbler: Tibetan Leaf Warbler
Ijima's leaf warbler: Izu Leaf Warbler
Laura's woodland warbler: Green-headed Woodland-warbler
Whistler's warbler: Himalayan Eyering-warbler
Bianchi's warbler: Upland Eyering-warbler
Alström's warbler: Plain-tailed Eyering-warbler
Martens's warbler: Chipping Eyering-warbler
Blyth's leaf warbler: Nuthatch Leaf Warbler
Claudia's leaf warbler: Qinling Leaf Warbler
Hartert's leaf warbler: Guangdong Leaf Warbler
Kloss's leaf warbler: Flicking Leaf Warbler
Davison's leaf warbler: Yellow-faced Leaf Warbler

Honestly I'm not really sold on all of this list. In particular I don't really like the name 'Eyering-warbler' but I do think this group of former Seicercus would benefit from a name uniting them, and this was the best I came up with 😂

 

[Farnboro John]

Some of those names are particularly unhelpful or inaccurate: Balkan Leaf Warbler is an especial offender in that not only is the distribution far more than the Balkans but the name lacks the association with Green-winged Leaf Warbler that indicates the confusion species, whereas having two Bonelli's Warblers makes it very clear (as does the existence of two Yellow-brows at present, and don't tell me birders call Hume's anything but Hume's Yellow-brow in the field). So I'm also not really sold on them and think the area needs either better work or no work.

John

 

[wheatearlp]

Some of those names are particularly unhelpful or inaccurate: Balkan Leaf Warbler is an especial offender in that not only is the distribution far more than the Balkans but the name lacks the association with Green-winged Leaf Warbler that indicates the confusion species, whereas having two Bonelli's Warblers makes it very clear (as does the existence of two Yellow-brows at present, and don't tell me birders call Hume's anything but Hume's Yellow-brow in the field). So I'm also not really sold on them and think the area needs either better work or no work.

John

I'd vote for no work. Too old to be learning a whole raft of new names in one go. One or two every couple of years would be my limit 🙂 Mind you, without suddenly changing my thoughts on travel, I'm unlikely to see more than the five of that lot that I have already seen 🤔

 

[RyanI]

Some of those names are particularly unhelpful or inaccurate: Balkan Leaf Warbler is an especial offender in that not only is the distribution far more than the Balkans but the name lacks the association with Green-winged Leaf Warbler that indicates the confusion species, whereas having two Bonelli's Warblers makes it very clear (as does the existence of two Yellow-brows at present, and don't tell me birders call Hume's anything but Hume's Yellow-brow in the field). So I'm also not really sold on them and think the area needs either better work or no work.

John

I agree with your Balkan leaf warbler point but I don't think I've ever heard anyone in the field call a Hume's, a Hume's YBW for at least 10 years

 

[Farnboro John]

I agree with your Balkan leaf warbler point but I don't think I've ever heard anyone in the field call a Hume's, a Hume's YBW for at least 10 years

Must be me then...

John

 

[jurek]

I agree with your Balkan leaf warbler point but I don't think I've ever heard anyone in the field call a Hume's, a Hume's YBW for at least 10 years

That is why I pointed to look in the internet which names are actually used between birders. Artificially constructed language does not work.

 

[Helsinki Birder]

Some of those names are particularly unhelpful or inaccurate: Balkan Leaf Warbler is an especial offender in that not only is the distribution far more than the Balkans but the name lacks the association with Green-winged Leaf Warbler that indicates the confusion species, whereas having two Bonelli's Warblers makes it very clear (as does the existence of two Yellow-brows at present, and don't tell me birders call Hume's anything but Hume's Yellow-brow in the field). So I'm also not really sold on them and think the area needs either better work or no work.

John

Age related perhaps...but I've never called it Hume's Yellow-Browed. It was always Hume's to me.

Same for people younger. With the impending re-lump of Balearic and Yelkouan, I've heard people say they will never call it anything but Balearic on a seawatch...I started out with Med Shear.... easily adapted to Balearic....and will easily adapt back to Med Shear.

Owen

 

[Farnboro John]

Age related perhaps...but I've never called it Hume's Yellow-Browed. It was always Hume's to me.

Same for people younger. With the impending re-lump of Balearic and Yelkouan, I've heard people say they will never call it anything but Balearic on a seawatch...I started out with Med Shear.... easily adapted to Balearic....and will easily adapt back to Med Shear.

Owen

Happy enough with Med Shear, simplifies seawatching!

I sort of agree about Hume's in that it was always understood in a British Isles context that it meant Hume's Y-bW as a differentiator from Yellow-brow (you won't normally hear anyone use the word "warbler" about that in the field either, but it's still part of the name) rather than Hume's Ground-tit.

John

 

[KenM]

I can recall someone on ‘ere, admonishing me for spelling Chiff Chaff as so.
I hadn’t realised in 70+ years that it was one word!….cos I assumed rightly, or wrongly, that it’s name would be exactly as it sounded.😮

 

[Xenospiza]

I don't think it's too difficult to come up with alternative names. Especially if you accept that the name doesn't need to exclude all other species (which is true for many accepted names in the genus: Greenish, Green, Two-barred, Yellow-browed, Wood, Willow, Chinese, Japanese, etc. - no-one is pushing to change these).

So here's some suggestions from a few minutes of brainstorming. I'm not familiar with several species on the list, so I'm sure people who know them could come up with better suggestions.

Western Bonelli's warbler: Green-winged Leaf Warbler
Eastern Bonelli's warbler: Balkan Leaf Warbler
Hume's leaf warbler: Wheezing Leaf Warbler
Brooks's leaf warbler: Acacia Leaf Warbler
Pallas's leaf warbler: Coronet Leaf Warbler
Tytler's leaf warbler: Kashmir Leaf Warbler
Radde's warbler: Short-billed Leaf Warbler
Tickell's leaf warbler: Tibetan Leaf Warbler
Ijima's leaf warbler: Izu Leaf Warbler
Laura's woodland warbler: Green-headed Woodland-warbler
Whistler's warbler: Himalayan Eyering-warbler
Bianchi's warbler: Upland Eyering-warbler
Alström's warbler: Plain-tailed Eyering-warbler
Martens's warbler: Chipping Eyering-warbler
Blyth's leaf warbler: Nuthatch Leaf Warbler
Claudia's leaf warbler: Qinling Leaf Warbler
Hartert's leaf warbler: Guangdong Leaf Warbler
Kloss's leaf warbler: Flicking Leaf Warbler
Davison's leaf warbler: Yellow-faced Leaf Warbler

Honestly I'm not really sold on all of this list. In particular I don't really like the name 'Eyering-warbler' but I do think this group of former Seicercus would benefit from a name uniting them, and this was the best I came up with 😂

I gave a few different names for these in my "Erasing History" thread: "Erasing history" in the WP
I admire your attempts at the Golden-Spectacled Warbler assemblage which currently have utterly uninspired names (maybe "Ringed Warbler" is good enough?)
Nuthatch Leaf Warbler is a particular favourite!

 

[Farnboro John]

I can recall someone on ‘ere, admonishing me for spelling Chiff Chaff as so.
I hadn’t realised in 70+ years that it was one word!….cos I assumed rightly, or wrongly, that it’s name would be exactly as it sounded.😮

In 70 years you'd never read the word Chiffchaff in a field guide, birding magazine, pager message, reserve notice.....?

John

 

[KenM]

In 70 years you'd never read the word Chiffchaff in a field guide, birding magazine, pager message, reserve notice.....?

John

For me, I’d never consciously transcribed the name in print because the song was etched into my “minds ear”.
I can remember consciously once, registering Chiffchaff in print and thinking that it was a typo!
Thereafter, whenever I saw Chiffchaff I just “glazed” over it, I also have a problem with “Channel4” I always read it as Channel 14.
They’re my skeletons John….where’s yours? 😊

 

[Farnboro John]

For me, I’d never consciously transcribed the name in print because the song was etched into my “minds ear”.
I can remember consciously once, registering Chiffchaff in print and thinking that it was a typo!
Thereafter, whenever I saw Chiffchaff I just “glazed” over it, I also have a problem with “Channel4” I always read it as Channel 14.
They’re my skeletons John….where’s yours? 😊

Spread all over this forum

Cheers

John

 

[johnallcock]

Some of those names are particularly unhelpful or inaccurate: Balkan Leaf Warbler is an especial offender in that not only is the distribution far more than the Balkans but the name lacks the association with Green-winged Leaf Warbler that indicates the confusion species, whereas having two Bonelli's Warblers makes it very clear (as does the existence of two Yellow-brows at present, and don't tell me birders call Hume's anything but Hume's Yellow-brow in the field). So I'm also not really sold on them and think the area needs either better work or no work.

John

It might be an individual preference, but personally I find it more confusing to have two similar species that also have similar names (Western/Eastern Bonelli's, Western/Eastern Olivaceous, Tundra/Taiga Bean Goose, etc). I find it subconsciously focuses the mind on the similarities between these two species, rather than viewing them as distinct, so that I find them harder to distinguish between them when needed. You'll notice that I did the same with other species pairs on the list. People seem to cope fine with other species pairs having distinct names (Red-breasted/Taiga Flycatcher, Reed/Marsh Warbler, even Marsh/Willow Tit), why should Phylloscopus be different?

In any case, why should Phylloscopus orientalis be named after Bonelli? He wasn't involved in the discovery, and the bird wasn't described until after he had died. The usual suggestion for retaining eponyms is to honour people for a discovery or to remember ornithological history, but this name both fails to recognise the discoverer and ignores the history of both people. Shouldn't you be pushing for this to be renamed Brehm's Warbler (or perhaps Brehm's Bonelli's Warbler )?

 

[johnallcock]

I gave a few different names for these in my "Erasing History" thread: "Erasing history" in the WP
I admire your attempts at the Golden-Spectacled Warbler assemblage which currently have utterly uninspired names (maybe "Ringed Warbler" is good enough?)
Nuthatch Leaf Warbler is a particular favourite!

"Ringed Warbler" was also an option I considered, and yes it would probably be better.

 

[Farnboro John]

It might be an individual preference, but personally I find it more confusing to have two similar species that also have similar names (Western/Eastern Bonelli's, Western/Eastern Olivaceous, Tundra/Taiga Bean Goose, etc). I find it subconsciously focuses the mind on the similarities between these two species, rather than viewing them as distinct, so that I find them harder to distinguish between them when needed. You'll notice that I did the same with other species pairs on the list. People seem to cope fine with other species pairs having distinct names (Red-breasted/Taiga Flycatcher, Reed/Marsh Warbler, even Marsh/Willow Tit), why should Phylloscopus be different?

In any case, why should Phylloscopus orientalis be named after Bonelli? He wasn't involved in the discovery, and the bird wasn't described until after he had died. The usual suggestion for retaining eponyms is to honour people for a discovery or to remember ornithological history, but this name both fails to recognise the discoverer and ignores the history of both people. Shouldn't you be pushing for this to be renamed Brehm's Warbler (or perhaps Brehm's Bonelli's Warbler )?

Perhaps in considering Reed and Marsh Warbler you should also remember Blyth's Reed Warbler. Where does that leave your idea? You will note also that the second of the pair Red-breasted/Taiga Flycatcher has a name that doesn't describe the bird, though Red-throated Flycatcher would have been accurate and helpful, so dissimilar names are not necessarily a good thing. Marsh and Willow Tt are both so inaccurate as to be actually misleading, but they represent stability.

I think you are right in guessing this is your individual preference.

There isn't a universally helpful or preferred system and there is a definite need to refer back through history so the status quo with minimal changes for new taxonomic discoveries must be the default.

John

 

[Mysticete]

I just hate Eastern and Western Bonelli's Warbler simply based on the construction of the name. I just feels weird to keep the patronym and add a modifier in front of it. Better to have either new patronyms or just a new name. Certainly there had to be better options than what we got?

 

[Xenospiza]

Marsh and Willow Tit are both so inaccurate as to be actually misleading, but they represent stability.

These literal translations of the German names are not entirely inaccurate though.
Marsh Tit does occur in swampy forests (even in the UK) and Willow Tit is still quite regular in willow carr (so yeah, basically in swampy forest as well).
That said, Marsh Tit seems to be most common in older oak forest and Willow Tit is far more common in pine plantations.

Chipping Chickadee and Whistling (song) or Wheezing (call) Chickadee would be much more accurate for these birds which I usually find (and still prefer to distinguish) on sound, but I agree to keep things as they are.

 

[Farnboro John]

These literal translations of the German names are not entirely inaccurate though.
Marsh Tit does occur in swampy forests (even in the UK) and Willow Tit is still quite regular in willow carr (so yeah, basically in swampy forest as well).
That said, Marsh Tit seems to be most common in older oak forest and Willow Tit is far more common in pine plantations.

Chipping Chickadee and Whistling (song) or Wheezing (call) Chickadee would be much more accurate for these birds which I usually find (and still prefer to distinguish) on sound, but I agree to keep things as they are.

QED!

Chickadee should be used only for birds in North America (and definitely not including the marginally North American but substantially Palaearctic Siberian Tit!)

John