• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Perhaps another game changer (16 Viewers)


Quote from Neil‘s review:

„
.This new series of binoculars by Sky Rover represents the most highly advanced binocular that competes favourably with European brands costing several times their modest price tags
.“ (emphasis by me)

Shouldn‘t we wait and see how the Sky Rover performs after 2 years of usage before coming to such a conclusion? And are we going to send the bino to China to claim our warranty rights, or how is that supposed to happen?
 

It is natural for most of us (including me) expended large amounts of money to own so called alpha binoculars from big brand to digest the bitter truth of emerging equity good or close enough model for a fraction of the cost. Initially I didn’t want to believe the banner clouds are that good when I read the posts on a few forums from a few exited individuals after testing it. It was too good to be true. However, after reading the three detailed and equally good reviews offered by our well known western optics reviewers, I do not dare to tell banner clouds are not good as they seem. The banner cloud seems to me as a clone of NL series in some ways however it offers some of more advanced features such as hydrophobic leans coatings, tripod adaptability and probably non-biodegradable armors compared to the NL series. Someone can argues that big three offer more reliable and longer warranty periods than banner cloud offers. However, my point of view is it is logical to buy 3 pairs of banner clouds, one after every three years, at the half the price of an NL which covers almost the same warranty period. Apart from the truth that many members here don’t like to buy Chinese products (I hope they will not buy banner could secretly) banner cloud will be a good option for those people can’t afford for one from the big three but want same experience to enjoy the birding as much as the people can afford one from the big three. If there is any Issues in QC and mechanics will be revealed in the future. However, I afraid that the price of banner cloud would increase in the future if the demand becomes high.
Hello Viraj,
Some very sensible points there. If I were interested in these as everyday instruments I’d definitely buy three of the Banner Clouds over an NL or anything similar. Its a no brainer. That said, I have no sustained interests in these bigger models anyway but happy to have a perfect 8 x 42 as a souvenir đŸ€—

Regards,

Neil
 
Quote from Neil‘s review:

„
.This new series of binoculars by Sky Rover represents the most highly advanced binocular that competes favourably with European brands costing several times their modest price tags
.“ (emphasis by me)

Shouldn‘t we wait and see how the Sky Rover performs after 2 years of usage before coming to such a conclusion?
Definitely. However, I rarely buy a product that's new on the market nowadays anyway. Too many new products are bananaware nowadays, and I got burnt a few times in the past.
And are we going to send the bino to China to claim our warranty rights, or how is that supposed to happen?
And as long as there's no European distributor that handles warranty claims and repairs ... no way.

Hermann
 
Last edited:
Always funny when Hermann gets out the crystal ball. What happened to the prediction that IS binos would take over?
Please note I never claimed it would happen immediately. And I stand by my prediction. The advantages of IS binos are such - at least among people who actually use them to see fine detail, e.g. on a bird - that even the big three won't be able to ignore them in the long run if they want to stay competitive.
Another day, another hype.
Well well. The biggest hypes on this forum always occur when one on the big three announces a new binocular. There have been quite a few examples since I joined the forum.
The target audience for this wonder bino are the small group of people trying to find a bargain within the astronomy subset of optics enthusiasts. And when I look at the usual recommendations when an astronomy channel on YouTube for example recommends a bino - it's mostly cheap stuff. Like Skymasters, Opticrons, etc.
I doubt "astronomy enthusiasts" looking for cheap bins are main target group. Birdwatchers and nature watchers in general are a larger and thus far more interesting target group.
It's an interesting product, no doubt, but not an innovation. If anything it's a good copy.
So all your Japanese wide angle binoculars are just "good copies" of the original porros Zeiss made from 1894 onwards?
And the price seems to be around 500 or even more, at which point I'll wait if any European Kunming-resellers might stock it.
Yep. In that price range I wouldn't buy anything direct from China. And I wouldn't buy any new binocular in that price range before there are some reports on their reliability.

Hermann
 
Please note I never claimed it would happen immediately. And I stand by my prediction. The advantages of IS binos are such - at least among people who actually use them to see fine detail, e.g. on a bird - that even the big three won't be able to ignore them in the long run if they want to stay competitive.

Well well. The biggest hypes on this forum always occur when one on the big three announces a new binocular. There have been quite a few examples since I joined the forum.

I doubt "astronomy enthusiasts" looking for cheap bins are main target group. Birdwatchers and nature watchers in general are a larger and thus far more interesting target group.

So all your Japanese wide angle binoculars are just "good copies" of the original porros Zeiss made from 1894 onwards?

Yep. In that price range I wouldn't buy anything direct from China. And I wouldn't buy any new binocular in that price range before there are some reports on their reliability.

Hermann
My guess is that this is only the start of the avalanche.
There is no technical reason for a $3000 binocular, the components are all commodities that add up to much less.
Swaro is postponing the impact by providing superior customer service and real innovations such as the Visio.
The others will suffer imho.
Longer term, I would expect Kunming United to become a respected name in optics, much as Zeiss or Hoya are today.
 
A lot comes down to advertising, existing brand awareness and local availability. I hope we see greater availability, but it depends on where sky rover is expecting to see them mainly.

Peter
 
My guess is that this is only the start of the avalanche.
The others will suffer imho.
Longer term, I would expect Kunming United to become a respected name in optics, much as Zeiss or Hoya are today.
IMO there are differences between the American market and the European market.

Other manufacturers find it very difficult to gain a foothold in Europe.

Nikon also failed with its EDG, even though it was initially offered much cheaper than the three other manufacturers.

Nikon is actually only present in the low-budget sector.

In contrast to the American market, most buyers here are still more traditional; when in doubt, they fall back on the tried and tested.
So it will be difficult for Kunming United to really capture decisive market shares.

Andreas
 
So much popcorn, lol. The real interest (or hilarity...) in this thread is what it tells us about the attitudes and perspectives of those contributing, rather than about the binocular under discussion.

IMO they got fat and lazy lately: Very little real innovation, ever increasing prices.
You know I respect your opinions/observations Mr H - but I have to disagree on this one. I think there have been some real developments by Z and S in terms of wider field of view and handling. I do agree prices have gone up to a level that seems incredible for those who remember when top tier binoculars cost around €1000. But if you adjust for inflation, and factor in the optical performance of modern top alphas (and the R&D needed to develop same), it's not completely unreasonable. Granted, £2,500 or whatever a NL costs is more than I'm willing to pay - but that is the price of having an optics industry in Europe, with European workers being paid European salaries.

Which brings us back to the SRBC and the efforts by PRC manufacturers to compete at the higher end of binocular design and production generally. This is really just the most recent iteration (those intent on remaining ignorant of the perspective that history gives should look away now...) of a trend more than a century old. Kunming is basically following the same playbook as Kamakura and the other JB/JE companies of the 50s, except that the rebranders in the West today are the likes of APM, "Oberwerk", Hawke, Vanguard etc instead of Bushnell, Swift and others forgotten by time. But the result is the same - consumers being able to get more affordable binoculars that still perform well (for which there is most certainly a demand). The best of the JB/JE products were not too far off West German porros optically and mechanically. What's happening now is very similar, except with roofs.

It's also worth remembering that a lot of Japanese binoculars of the 1950s were copies or close copies of Bausch & Lomb 7x50s and other designs (Zeiss etc). Copying, or near copying, has been going on since the beginning of time. And copying is often followed by development and innovation. In the end the likes of Fuji and Kowa were able to sell their products on the strength of their own brand name: something like this is probably happening with Kunming aka "Sky Rover". I suppose the big question is whether they think it's worth setting up a distribution and after-sales support network themselves, as opposed to letting rebranders take care of those aspects (as, let's not forget, Kamakura and other Eastern manufacturers, like whoever makes the Audubon these days, do).

PS. I noted in a previous post that the SRBC doesn't really need to equal or better a NL or SF - all it really needs to do is be better than anything else in its price category (currently ÂŁ450 or so per Neil E review). That's a little above the Terra series and around the same as Nikon M7. The SRBC may or may not put the alphas out of business (I'd imagine it won't, because alpha binoculars are luxury items, similar to Rolex et al, which ought to have been obsoleted as pure timekeeping instruments by the quartz revolution). But there's a very good chance it will prompt some significant changes at the affordable to mid-tier of the market. Forget about SRBC vs NL or SF - I'd really like to see comparisons between the SRBC and the Conquest HD, the Monarch HG etc.
 
So much popcorn, lol. The real interest (or hilarity...) in this thread is what it tells us about the attitudes and perspectives of those contributing, rather than about the binocular under discussion.
IMO, such an irrelevant conclusion does not belong in any review, so you could also draw other conclusions as to why the binocular under review were rated so well.

Andreas
 
My thought would be .....looks like I can get Nikon Monarch M7 8x42's without the toxic PFAS on the lenses for less money than Sky Rover
When we talk about PFAS I am pretty sure you (and we all) have consumed few hundreds to few thousand (or even more) folds of PFAS during the last few decades than the amount of bio available PFAS comes with any binocular lens. PFAS is ubiquitous and used to make non-stick cooking pans to cosmetics and packing materials. So don’t worry about PFAS coming with binocular lenses.
 
Last edited:
.looks like I can get Nikon Monarch M7 8x42's without the toxic PFAS on the lenses for less money than Sky Rover
Wow - how things have changed. The default here used to be to favour anything that could possibly improve optical or other aspect of performance, no matter how toxic it or its production might be - the discussions on lead vs unleaded glass being a great example - and bewail "woke" attempts at moving away from same.

One can always get something for less money 
.. the question should be “is it as good?”
Agreed. Or, offer more for the same money - which if Holger et al are anything to go by, the SRBC does over eg. the Terra or M7...

such an irrelevant conclusion does not belong in any review,
Fortunately, not everyone in the "United States of Europe" has received a sense of humour bypass... :giggle:
 
I think comparing it to the alphas would be a bit of a stretch, but like someone said above, it would be very interesting to see a comparison with "subalphas". By reading all of these reviews I get the impression that these Sky Rover would destroy a CHD, all the Monarch series, Trinovids, etc. Do you still get what you paid for?
 
What I have written I have written
Anyone not already rolling their eyes at this has not sought the origin of the quotation (although the source should by now be easy to guess).

The real interest (or hilarity...) in this thread is what it tells us about the attitudes and perspectives of those contributing, rather than about the binocular under discussion.
Which is to say that it's quite typical of this forum, since ultimately choices are a matter of personal taste and judgment -- which somehow become especially intense when money also enters the picture.
 
But there's a very good chance it will prompt some significant changes at the affordable to mid-tier of the market. Forget about SRBC vs NL or SF - I'd really like to see comparisons between the SRBC and the Conquest HD, the Monarch HG etc.

I think comparing it to the alphas would be a bit of a stretch, but like someone said above, it would be very interesting to see a comparison with "subalphas". By reading all of these reviews I get the impression that these Sky Rover would destroy a CHD, all the Monarch series, Trinovids, etc. Do you still get what you paid for?

The build and finishing quality of the Sky Rover Banner Clouds (SRBC) seem to match their price tag - they are pretty much what one would expect from a bino in the $500-$1,000 price range. These SRBC were obviously not made or designed to displace the exquisitely crafted "heirloom" binoculars. No status symbol with these. Not the type of binocular to show off proudly behind an elegant glass display or hutch. The alpha brands can rest at ease in that sense.

These SRBC series seem to me were made/designed for the more serious enthusiast who seeks optical excellence but doesn't want to feel guilty about scuffing up or damaging their $2,000-$3,500 glass when out in the field. I am sure there are a few here who worry about taking such an expensive alpha instrument to certain places or locations in spite of its top-notch optical capabilities. I can also see a market for digital nomad millennials (who love the outdoors and prefer to hang out in Quora or Reddit) or for anyone who refuses to spend thousands on a binocular. Also the curious older enthusiast who hangs in traditional forums like this one and who prefers to buy from a personal dealer like Oberwerk, APM and the likes. If you think about it, these binos seem to fill that void nicely. I believe Sky Rover has a certain target international demographics in mind, but I don't think it will be large initially, especially overseas. For now, it appears they are super busy filling the surge in demand from their easy-to-reach domestic market where these binos have been well received.

By reading the various reviews published to date, the SRBC appears to punch above its weight (and price) "optically" speaking. I have come away with the impression that, once one puts everything into the equation - as it does have some optical slight weaknesses compared to the top alpha dogs - there doesn't seem to be any sub-alpha that can touch the SRBC, again in optical terms. I have collected the optical highlights below for those who prefer a summary:

Against a Swarovski Habicht 8x30 W - Note: this is an alpha porro (not a roof!) bino costing w/ 7.8Âș FOV. Cost: about $1,500 USD

I spent a few days comparing the view in the Banner Cloud with my reference binocular, the venerable Swarovski Habicht 8 x 30W: an instrument of unimpeachable optical quality. I call it ‘reality through the looking glass.’ This instrument has a flat transmission curve across the visible spectrum, delivering 96 per cent of the light it gathers to my eyes. As a result its colour tone is absolutely neutral. Compared with the Habicht, the Banner Cloud delivers slightly warmer colours, with a slight bias towards the red and orange region of the visible spectrum. Placing the instruments on my tripods and carefully comparing the views, I judged the central sharpness of the Banner Cloud to be every bit as good as the Habicht. Indeed I came away with the distinct impression that the Banner Cloud was revealing slightly finer details at distance, an impression I attribute to its larger objectives. - Neil English

Stray light is much better controlled in the Banner Cloud Apo 8 x 42 too. While observing the bright star. Vega, rising in the northeast with a bright sodium street lamp just outside the field of view, the difference between the Habicht and the Banner Cloud was like night and day. The Habicht all too easily showed its weakness in manifesting off-axis glare, with the bigger Banner Cloud stubbornly refusing to reveal any in the same test. - Neil English

Against a Swarovski 8.5x42 EL (about $2,000 USD w/ 7.6Âș FOV):

I was immediately taken by the superb performance of the Banner Cloud 8 x 42: the view is outstanding in many ways: razor sharp from edge to edge, wonderful contrast, and vibrant true-to-life colours. The field flatteners all but eliminates field curvature and pincushion distortion is refreshingly mild, only becoming slightly apparent in the outer 20 per cent of its enormous field. The instrument instantly reminded me of the Swarovski 8.5 x 42 EL only with a much larger field of view. During brighter spells, I could see that it performs admirably against the light. Glare suppression is well above average in this unit. - Neil English

A quick comparison (visible in my YouTube video) with a Swarovski 8.5×42 showed excellent containment of residual chromaticism in the center of the field. If you observe birds of prey and planes against the light I think you will be very satisfied with its performance. - Piergiovanni Salimbeni

One test that surprised me was its ability to contain diffused light
 I must admit that the Sky Rover, in this particular circumstance, showed a greater ability to contain the diffused light than the Swarovski EL, which even showed half of the LEDs reflected from the spotlight inside the eyepiece of the right optical tube. This experience led me to test the binoculars in the following days in observing birds of prey against the light and I was very satisfied with their performance for such a wide-angle binocular. In the past I tested top-of-the-line binoculars with a very wide-angle field that did not have the ability to contain stray light like these new Sky Rover binoculars. I know that this fact may not please some enthusiasts but this is what I highlighted in the field. - P. Salimbeni

Against a Zeiss Victory SF (#1 rated binocular at AllBino in the 8x42 roof bino category - 8.4Âș FOV, cost: $2,900 USD):

The images are bright and the color rendering is almost perfectly neutral. I only noticed a very slight change towards the warm tone (but it is more neutral, for example, than my ZEISS VICTORY SF) - Piergiovanni Salimbeni

I conducted several twilight tests with my high-end binoculars and with a Vixen Ultima ZCF 9×63 binocular, which, although it has a very narrow field of view, is one of the compact and bright binoculars suitable for this type of testing. I must confirm that Sky Rover has designed binoculars that appear decidedly bright , difficult, I think, among the roof prisms, in this range, to be able to do better, it would perhaps be compared to some bright Porro prisms with few elements in the optical train
 The real differences with the TOP OF THE RANGE only became evident around 8.30pm when the Sky Rover Banner Cloud APO 8×42 was no longer comparable to top of the range instruments, such as a Zeiss Victory SF 8×42 or a Swarovski EL 8.×42, but the difference was not, as I always say, proportional to the price. - P. Salimbeni

Angular Distortion: Given its very wide-angle field, I expected greater angular distortion; in reality it is quite contained since all the highlighted details showed little distortion. As you know, I am not very sensitive to the “rolling ball” effect; However, I tried to do some panning comparisons with my Victory SF 8x42 and noticed a slight rolling ball effect in the Banner Cloud due to its minimal distortion. - P. Salimbeni

The vision of the M42 nebula is excellent, decidedly bright. Even though it doesn't reach the stellar punctuality provided by the Zeiss Victory SF 8×42 that I'm using as a comparison, it is very, very satisfactory. - P. Salimbeni

General observations:
Sky Rover declares a field of 9.1 degrees, which corresponds to almost 160 meters at 1000 meters and which therefore generates an apparent field with the classic formula greater than 72 degrees. In fact, during my astronomical observations, it seemed to provide a slightly higher range. This performance establishes the Banner Cloud APO 8×42 as the binoculars with the widest and most correct field currently available on the market in that format and in that specific price range (and often even when compared to much higher price ranges). - P. Salimbeni
Note: At a big premium in price (starting at $2,900 USD), I believe the Swaro NL series are the only other roof prism binos that offer such wide and well-corrected FOV's. That's it. I, personally, would like to see an in-depth optical comparison between the SRBC and a Swaro NL in the same size.

Chromatic aberration in the center of the field: Again, Sky Rover has done an excellent job regarding the containment of chromatic aberration. I had the opportunity and pleasure to observe with the Sky Rover under different lighting conditions, from observing snowy landscapes to observing the Moon or birds of prey against the light. I must confirm that in all cases, the binoculars have no on-axis chromatic aberration and this performance is comparable with the best binoculars on the market that I have tested in the last 20 years. - P. Salimbeni

TEST WITH USAF CHART AT 35 METERS: What surprised me, however, was the total absence of residual chromatism in the center and also the lateral chromatism was among the best ever seen, given that almost always the outermost rows of the table (printed in the 30×40 format) show a little ' of chromatic residue. In the case of the Banner Cloud, only a slight hint could be seen on the edges of the table. Truly an excellent performance. With respect to sharpness and contrast, when I struggle to notice differences with high quality binoculars it means that there is little to nitpick, these are binoculars that have excellent contrast and show the black lines "really black" and not dark purple and very sharp edges. In the case of the Banner Cloud, only a slight hint could be seen on the edges of the table. Truly an excellent performance. With respect to sharpness and contrast, when I struggle to notice differences with high quality binoculars it means that there is little to nitpick, these are binoculars that have excellent contrast and show the black lines "really black" and not dark purple and very sharp edges. - P. Salimbeni


Where the Sky Rover Banner Cloud APO 8×42 really amazes is in freehand observation of the landscape (static or with slow panning). It is possible to exploit over nine degrees of field which, freehand, are perfectly correct. The images are sharp, contrasted, with bright colors, and the containment of chromatic aberration is excellent in this price range. The lateral chromatism is minimal and never invasive. - P. Salimbeni

I had some very pleasant visions during a short trip to Valtellina looking at Monte Disgrazia and the tormented area of Pescegallo in the distance. The images were truly exciting, similar and at times better than those obtainable with higher-end instruments. I think wide-angle earth observation enthusiasts can seriously consider purchasing these binoculars. Furthermore, thanks to the position of the eyepieces and the distance between the optical tubes, there is a clear appearance of three-dimensionality which allows the planes to be clearly separated from each other. It's a vision that I would define as “Porro-like”. - P. Salimbeni

And last but not least when reviewing the 12x50 of the same SRBC series:
I do not say this lightly, but this is the first time that I handled a binocular made in China which in all practical aspects gave me the impression of being among the best that the market has to offer. I am thus eager to see other members of this Banner Cloud series, as there are the 8x42, 10x42 and 10x50. - Holger Merlitz
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top