Loggerhead or Northern? (1 Viewer)

[Michael Frankis]

Anyone any additional thoughts on the identity of this Shrike pic Paulyoly posted a while back?

http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php?photo=5429

Michael

 

[Dave B Smith]

Northern Shrike is way out of its range in Florida. There have only been a few record sightings in North Florida. The common Shrike in Florida is the Loggerhead Shrike. Unfortunately the ID differences can't be seen in this photo. They are (from the Patuxent Bird Center website): Patuxent Bird Identification Center
"The Northern Shrike is very similar to the Loggerhead Shrike but is larger with a black mask that does not extend across the top of the bill, a paler gray overall color and faintly barred underparts. Immatures are browner than immature Loggerheads."

Based on range and probability, I'd say almost certainly Loggerhead Shrike.

EDIT: Sorry Michael, I didn't see your comments on the Photo link. I can't really add anything as to which subspecies of Loggerhead. I wouldn't worry too much about the "shade of gray" of this bird in the photo. The black is not very "black" either. If the photo was darkend up to get a true black, the gray would also be darker.

 

[Jane Turner]

No answer, just a couple of questions

Is Northern L excubitator i.e. Great Grey over here?

Does Loggerhead fill the same niche as Southern Grey Shrike L.meriodionalis

 

[KC Foggin]

I would also go with the Loggerhead on this one.

 

[Dave B Smith]

Jane,
The first one checks,
Lanius excubitor = Northern Shrike
but
Lanius ludovicianus = Loggerhead Shrike

We don't have Lanius meridionalis in the US.

 

[Jane Turner]

I just was wondering if Loggerhead took the same ecological niche...ie the Southern..warmer drier...more open steppe like areas. actually we have three large grey Shrikes! The pic looks way darker than any race of excubitor this side of the pond!

 

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Dave,

I was thinking about different races of Loggerhead mainly because I'm assuming Paulyoly is very familiar with his local race of Loggerhead (the rather dark nominate ludovicianus), and was identifying this bird as different, because it was visibly different to the local birds he's familiar with.

Accepted your point about the darkness balance of the photo, but Paulyoly's bird also clearly shows a white rump, which nominate ludovicianus doesn't have (same dark grey as the mantle), while the Great Plains excubitorides does (and so of course does Northern Shrike).

Couple of other points for clarity:
Northern Shrike is the same species as Great Grey Shrike - just different name usage US/UK

And Jane was asking if Loggerhead is an ecological replacement of southern Europe's Southern Grey Shrike, which I guess it is - both being heat-adapted, largely resident (or short-distance migrant), compared to the cold-adapted, more strongly migratory Northern/Great Grey. Though the waters can be muddied by Europe also having the Lesser Grey Shrike, another heat-loving southern species (but this one a long-distance migrant)

Michael

 

[Jane Turner]

L.meridionalis.pallidirostris is a pretty long range migrant too of course! Been into my Grey shrikes since that rather fab Manx Bird this summer.

Is there a consistent difference in wing-shape in the US species as in Europe? This bird has a tiny primary projection.

 

[Michael Frankis]

Hmmm . . .I don't have many hard figures, but the one I do have (in Lefranc & Worfolk, Shrikes) gives Loggerhead a noticeably shorter wing than Northern (88-106mm, vs 107-121mm). But (assuming their illustrations are measured accurate) Loggerhead doesn't appear to have a shorter primary projection, presumably as its tertials are also shorter. Loggerhead also has a slightly shorter tail, in this perhaps showing more similarity to Lesser Grey, than to Southern Grey.

In terms of migration, I guess excubitorides matches pallidirostris in both being the migratory races of otherwise largely sedentary species - and interestingly, both occuring on plains (steppes) which are very cold in winter.

Michael

 

[Jane Turner]

This shrike appears to have has less of a primary projection than nominate L.excubitator. I have to say I found the Lefranc Shrike book to less than useless when it came to sorting out the Manx Shrike. I don't own it, I just browsed it in Waterstones .

 

[bcurrie]

Definitely a Loggerhead. My reply, and reasoning, on his post http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php?photo=5429.