dantheman
Bah humbug
Or even Gwee-moh ...
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How Do You Pronounce ____________? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter raymie
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Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
See my edit to the last post
dantheman
Bah humbug
Guillemot - Wikipedia
The Wikipedia I just looked up says it comes from the French for William (Guilliame). Google then says this originates from the French for 'gilded helmet'.
dantheman
Bah humbug
Ok
. Normally in French, consonants at the end of words are silent, they need to be followed by a vowel to be pronounced.
opisska
rabid twitcher
Yeah but you'll hear a hard c, Ah-rah-kaw-rih or some such in Spanish speaking countries fairly frequently, and in English speaking countries and for me this one is getting into pedantry to try to correct people.
Juh-caw-nuh in English speaking countries vs Haw-cah-nah in Spanish speaking countries vs zha-za-nah (hard to transcribe) in Brazil is even more ingrained, and I think you'd kind of be an ass to correct most people on the pronunciation. Words get absorbed into other languages and the accepted pronunciation in a place is what it is.
My favorite of the lot is Trindade Petrel
I dunno. I think that if the name is basically unchanged, then the original pronunciation should be kept - because why not? Why would you just take a word and change it slightly, because that's how you think that it should be read? I have absolutely nothing against languages having their own names for birds, but it really doesn't make sense just to "mildly butcher" the real name, does it? Btw. that's what Czech does for almost every bird - provides a unique, Czech name, which is not an acoustic approximation of the original, but typically is a completely independent take on the naming (so Jacana is "ostnák", vaguely "a thorny bird").
In that case, Jacana is in principle Portuguese so that relevant pronunciation - which is interesting to me, because I never thought about it and always read it as an English word - which I will now try to stop doing.
Hehe, and here's where Czech has failed me, because the Czech word for Guan is ... guan. But there is no way in hell to say that as one syllable in Czech
Xenospiza
Distracted
"Gwan" is the correct pronunciation: guan - Wiktionary, the free dictionary
Something I wondered, considering "mildly butchering" other languages: do Americans pronounce jaeger as "yayger" (staying close to the German pronunciation) or dzhayger (which would be the usual pronunciation of the j)?
Some praise for the British: at least they know how to pronounce Cetti (the Dutch all say "Setti").
We probably all mispronounce Ménétries though. Bbased on the Russian transcription of his French name, it should be pronounced may-nay-TRYEAH, but I guess most people will opt for mini-trees.
I'm still hoping to use this pedantry in the field one day!
Something I wondered, considering "mildly butchering" other languages: do Americans pronounce jaeger as "yayger" (staying close to the German pronunciation) or dzhayger (which would be the usual pronunciation of the j)?
Some praise for the British: at least they know how to pronounce Cetti (the Dutch all say "Setti").
We probably all mispronounce Ménétries though. Bbased on the Russian transcription of his French name, it should be pronounced may-nay-TRYEAH, but I guess most people will opt for mini-trees.
I'm still hoping to use this pedantry in the field one day!
James Lowther
Well-known member
in English English (can't speak for other varieties) possessives always end with a "z" or "iz" sound (the "iz" sound if the stem ends in a "s" or "z" or "j" or "ch" sound etc.) e.g. James's is JAYM-ziz, Xenospiza's is zeh-no-SPAI-zuhz.
So if correct pronunciation of the family name Ménétries is may-nay-TRYEAH, correct pronunciation of the bird name should be may-nay-TRYEAHZ
i've never heard anyone else pronounce it either as a family name or a bird name but i always have guessed either
Meh-NEH-tree-ay for the family and Meh-NEH-tree-ayz for the bird, or
Meh-NEH-tree-ayz for the family and Meh-NEH-tree-ay-ziz for the bird
cheers,
James
lockbreeze926
Well-known member
I would have thought that name/word should be pronounced may-nay-tree in normal circumstances. The acute accents elongate the e to produce the -ay sound and the rest of the word would be one syllable, ignoring the final consonant as usual in French. As in industrie, tuileries, etc.
Then, add an s sound in English to get the possessive - may-nay-trees. God knows what French speakers would call it - Chanteuse* de Ménétries?
An exception would be in song or poetry, when a syllable can be inserted to help a line scan better. As in "allons enfants de la patrie", where the final word effectively has a third syllable added for this reason.
I look forward to somebody penning a rousing march about a small warbler and crowbarring in that name.
(* joke)
Then, add an s sound in English to get the possessive - may-nay-trees. God knows what French speakers would call it - Chanteuse* de Ménétries?
An exception would be in song or poetry, when a syllable can be inserted to help a line scan better. As in "allons enfants de la patrie", where the final word effectively has a third syllable added for this reason.
I look forward to somebody penning a rousing march about a small warbler and crowbarring in that name.
(* joke)
Xenospiza
Distracted
Yes, I had neglected the final possessive s here as my message would have become overly long!
I believe the native speakers were also wondering about how to pronounce Ménétries... the discussion is buried somewhere in the taxonomy forum.
MJB
Well-known member
Then they become exhausted and fail miserably while ordering a consolation 'bruschetta'...
MJB
Richard Prior
Halfway up an Alp
I’ve had a try ( to be sung to the tune of the French National anthem La Marseillaise), it also recounts how I saw my first ever Ménétries (in Syria in 2010).
Altogether now:
When we marched into Palmyra
The Bald Ibis had long gone
We saw a few smart Desert Finches
But the Waldrapp there were none.
To the date palms we must go
Where the warblers sometimes show
March on, march on
Or crawl upon our knees
Till we find that Menetries!
Pronounced menehtrees otherwise it doesn’t work!
Microtus
Maryland USA (he/him)
Microtus
Maryland USA (he/him)
I say YAY gur. And I have seen all three species.
dantheman
Bah humbug
Like a proto-notary? (eg the original/primal notary?!)
I would probably avoid saying the above species in public, how is it meant to be pronounced?
dantheman
Bah humbug
No Bald Ibises or Waldrapps?! How about Geronticus calvus ?
;-)
(As an aside the latin sounds a bit like a cross between that King Caratacus character (also immortalised in rhyme?), Geronimo and a cow).
Tero
Retired
Pro-tho-no-tary. Accent on tho.
lockbreeze926
Well-known member
Logically, given the word's origins as the title of a principal note-taker, the "notary" part should be said as if it were almost a separate word (as qwerty has it above), to allow space for that meaning. However, I have most often heard Americans say it like Tero (two above, although I'd render it pra-thawn'i'tray), in much the same syllable-conserving way as laboratory becomes "labra-torri".
I do try to remember, though, that "the way Americans say it" is the way most people say it (or spell it).
I do try to remember, though, that "the way Americans say it" is the way most people say it (or spell it).
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