Hello from Singapore, Binocular help (2 Viewers)

[Sharkbait]

Hi everyone,

I intend to get a pair of binoculars for an African safari trip later this year, and started my research early so that I’m able to make a considered purchase in good time. After some fits & starts, I happened to stumble on this forum and it is a Godsend!! So informative and rich in experiences, opinions, reviews, etc about a multitude of binos. Thank you all for educating me.

A friend has lent me his old Jenoptik 10x42, which I’m learning how to use by birdwatching from my balcony or walking in a park in front of my home. I’m starting to see some of the birds which I’ve heard chirping, tweeting, cooing, etc. for the past 5 years. Happy to see an egret/heron, pigeons, swifts, swallows, crows & mynahs, and a couple of bright yellow birds which I think are black-naped orioles. It’s opened my eyes and I’m finding enjoyment and pleasure in this simple, easy-going pursuit of leisure and observation. I’m a nature lover, but have been taking that pleasure underwater as a scuba diver (non-professional, just leisure, but to a high-ish level of competence) for about 30 years. Now the land fauna beckon.

It seems like there are a lot of forum users with great binos, even multiple pairs of alpha binos. Am quite amazed at the cost of such binos, which I don’t feel is worthwhile for me, since I suspect my eyes wouldn’t be able to pick up the difference between “good” and “really great” binos. I have experienced “diminishing returns” on equipment for my other leisure pursuits, and, especially when the alphas are quite painful on the pocket, I don’t really want to get sucked into the same “diminishing returns” game for binos.

My eyesight is not good, I’ve worn spectacles since about age 8, and am in my mid-50’s, so I’d like to buy a decent-but-not-too-expensive pair of binoculars when I return my friend’s pair after a couple of months’ use, since I intend continue to use them for birdwatching after my safari holiday.

I’m looking to spend something in the region of US$/€500. There are some shops in Singapore which sell binos, but it’s a limited selection and there is quite some mark-up compared to the same binos’ prices in other countries. I looked through a number of Celestrons (Nature, Trailseeker, Regal) but saw a disturbing black spot in many of them and, more disturbingly, came away feeling quite nauseated. Also took a look at Nikon Monarchs (M5, M7 and something else more expensive but I don’t remember if they were the HG or something else). I quite liked the M7 8x32, but was only testing it in a shop. I’ll need to do more research to see if I can see/try more binos in Singapore (that are not the Swarovski/Leica/Zeiss brands and prices to match).

I may have an opportunity to travel to Germany later this year, and am tempted by what I’ve read of the GPO Passion ED’s - 8x32 or 8x42. Assuming I can find a shop to test them out, can anyone advise me what I should be looking out for? I know I will check to see if the eye relief is enough for me with my specs, and I won’t want to see black spots or feel nausea after looking through them. Should I be looking to test out FOV/AFOV (because I want to birdwatch with them), and if so, how should I test them?

Thank you in advance!

Sharkbait

 

[delia todd]

Hi Sharkbait and a warm welcome to you from all the Staff and Moderators. I've moved your post to the Binocular Forum, as I think they're better placed to be able to advise you.

I'm sure you will enjoy it here and I look forward to hearing your news.

 

[Kits]

Welcome to Birdforum. I hope you enjoy your visits.

 

[KaterinBortle9]

Welcome, Sharkbait, to BF. The new Sky-Rover APO 8x42 might just be what you are looking for. The local astronomical equipment establishment McGill at Novena now takes pre-orders for it at SGD$700. You can search and check out their website. I've ordered a unit from them for a family member just a week ago as its safer since they will take care of any hiccups.

First impressions of it on Cloudy Nights by a member there is good: https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/911776-sky-rover-8x42-apo-banner-cloud-91°-fov/

You can wait for more user experiences with it regarding eye-relief while looking around for other options. My ordered unit probably will arrive in April so I can't tell you much about its ER with spectacles till then.

Addition1: The Nikon Monarch M7 8x32, like its predecessor the Monarch 7 8x32, is a quite good but its eye-relief is a little too short for spectacles and both still have bright regions at both lower left and right corners near the exit pupils which was somehow distracting for me with spectacles. The M7 8x42 is okay but the new Sky-rover right now set a new specs standard for a mid range binocular and it cost about $70 more than the M7 8x42 with better FOV and less image fall-off.

Addition2: In my experience, the camera shops staff I've encountered are not well versed regarding binoculars. Astro scientific and Mcgill are way more knowlegeable and helpful but they also only carry certain brands. A good place to experience alpha and mid-range binos in singapore is SLR Revolution near cityhall since you can test and handle swarovski and nikon binoculars there while able to look unhindered across the roadside street to familiarize yourself with good optics. You should bring along the Jenoptik 10x42 for comparison.

 

[dries1]

Stick with GPO, they will service the instrument if needed. I would personally, if in your shoes stay away from the sky rover banner cloud models from China at present. It is new and would hate for you to be one who has issues with a new design. Let the hype work its way out.

 

[Sharkbait]

Many thanks @KaterinBortle9 for your suggestions for the Sky Rover APO 8x42, Mcgill and SLR Revolution. I will check them out - the Sky Rover particularly looks intriguing. Have been to Astro Scientific (they’re the one at the Science Centre, right?) and sadly the brand they carry didn’t seem to suit my eyes.

 

[Patudo]

I've enjoyed birding in Singapore very much over the years. It's not just the rare birds that are interesting - even the everyday birds like olive-backed sunbirds, scarlet-backed flowerpeckers, blue-tailed bee-eaters, pink-necked green pigeons, collared kingfishers and red-breasted parakeets (all of which you should definitely keep an eye out for ... most of them should be seeable in your area) are full of movement and splashes of colour. Even in the heart of the city, anyone with a bit of patience can watch white-bellied sea eagles hooking fish out of the water in places like Marina Bay, often taking their catch to high streetlights, with hundreds of people walking by beneath. There are so many trees all over the place, so plenty of habitat for birds that can adapt to the human-modified environment, and compared to many other parts of SE Asia there is much less trapping/poaching: I'd much rather be a bird in Singapore than Vietnam or Java. Every country (that I've visited anyway) has neat birds, but I think Singapore does really well in that respect.

The unfortunate thing about Singapore is that the tropical climate is harsh on binoculars. You may already have found the thread discussing rubber armour deterioration in Swarovskis, with some of the users affected coming from Singapore. I would hesitate to recommend binoculars that are not sealed/waterproof for long term use there, except possibly if you can keep them in a climate-controlled environment (dehumidifier cabinet etc).

If you do get over to Germany you should take the opportunity to try as many different binoculars at different price levels as you can, if there are good optics shops near you - it will give you a better sense of what optical qualities are really important for you. A number of Birdforum members are German and might be able to recommend shops near where you'll be. Good luck in your search!

 

[KC Foggin]

Hi Sharkbait and a warm welcome to you. Enjoy your trip to Africa

 

[Maljunulo]

Hi everyone,

My eyesight is not good, I’ve worn spectacles since about age 8, and am in my mid-50’s, so I’d like to buy a decent-but-not-too-expensive pair of binoculars when I return my friend’s pair after a couple of months’ use, since I intend continue to use them for birdwatching after my safari holiday.

Thank you in advance!

Sharkbait

Is your eyesight correctable to 20/20 with glasses, and what do the glasses correct?

 

[Sharkbait]

I've enjoyed birding in Singapore very much over the years. It's not just the rare birds that are interesting - even the everyday birds like olive-backed sunbirds, scarlet-backed flowerpeckers, blue-tailed bee-eaters, pink-necked green pigeons, collared kingfishers and red-breasted parakeets (all of which you should definitely keep an eye out for ... most of them should be seeable in your area) are full of movement and splashes of colour. Even in the heart of the city, anyone with a bit of patience can watch white-bellied sea eagles hooking fish out of the water in places like Marina Bay, often taking their catch to high streetlights, with hundreds of people walking by beneath. There are so many trees all over the place, so plenty of habitat for birds that can adapt to the human-modified environment, and compared to many other parts of SE Asia there is much less trapping/poaching: I'd much rather be a bird in Singapore than Vietnam or Java. Every country (that I've visited anyway) has neat birds, but I think Singapore does really well in that respect.

The unfortunate thing about Singapore is that the tropical climate is harsh on binoculars. You may already have found the thread discussing rubber armour deterioration in Swarovskis, with some of the users affected coming from Singapore. I would hesitate to recommend binoculars that are not sealed/waterproof for long term use there, except possibly if you can keep them in a climate-controlled environment (dehumidifier cabinet etc).

If you do get over to Germany you should take the opportunity to try as many different binoculars at different price levels as you can, if there are good optics shops near you - it will give you a better sense of what optical qualities are really important for you. A number of Birdforum members are German and might be able to recommend shops near where you'll be. Good luck in your search!

Thank you Patudo.

Yes the bird life in Singapore is pretty much safe from trapping & poaching (other than crows). I used to see an eagle floating effortlessly, riding the thermals above the park near Marina Bay. But since I’ve had the binos, I haven’t seen it, so it would be really nice to see sea eagles hooking fish out of the Bay.

From my balcony, I can see birds of a sort these few days - Swiftees at the National Stadium. 😆 Taylor Swift is playing a total of 6 nights in Singapore and it has been high energy concerts so far. Her audiences are much louder and more appreciative than other acts/singers playing in the same stadium.

I agree that waterproof binos will be absolutely necessary for Singapore’s high humidity. While I have a dehumidifier in one of the bedrooms, it’s likely not enough to prevent gradual fungal growth in unsealed binos. My friend keeps his in a sealed box with silica gel, in a dehumidifier-operated room. I will likely follow suit.

If my business trip to Germany happens, I’ll go to Munich where my company’s headquarters is. An off-site meeting will be nearish-by, but I won’t have time enough to get away to an optics shop. But I know there are a few optics shops in Munich, and will ask the German forum members for recommendations nearer to my departure. Actually, the opportunity to try many binoculars is quite exciting, and I think the optics shops should have some expertise in advising what to look out for. I just need to find an English speaker, as I won’t be able to get my German up to speed.

 

[Sharkbait]

Is your eyesight correctable to 20/20 with glasses, and what do the glasses correct?

My eyesight is supposedly corrected to 20/20 with glasses, but my multi-focal lenses don’t give me super clarity no matter whether I look up or down them! I have both short-sightedness (from age 8) as well as long-sightedness (about 10 years ago).

 

[Sharkbait]

Thank you @delia todd , @Kits , @KC Foggin for your welcomes. I’m looking forward to learning a lot more about birds here.

And also thanks to @dries1 for the good suggestion to get the GPOs rather than Sky Rover in case repairs are needed. I did look at the Cloudy Nights link that @KaterinBortle9 provided and while intriguing, I also felt that I’d rather not buy a completely new model of binos with unknown risks.

 

[Gijs van Ginkel]

Sharkbait, post 12 and previous ons,
We have investigated the GPO Passion ED 8x32 and the GPO 8x32 rangefinder in comparison with other 8x30/8x32 binoculars of different brands. Moreover I have used and tested the GPO Passion ED 8x32 a lot during nature walks and in my opinion this binocular can compete well with many other brands including more expensive ones. Moreover, the service level was very good when we had questions during our investigations. So if your budget is not sky high, a GPO is a good choice.
Gijs van Ginkel

 

[chill6x6]

Stick with GPO, they will service the instrument if needed. I would personally, if in your shoes stay away from the sky rover banner cloud models from China at present. It is new and would hate for you to be one who has issues with a new design. Let the hype work its way out.

I could not agree MORE! Too many good binoculars with a good track record to potentially waste your time and money on an unproven binocular brand. Stick with GPO, Vortex, Nikon, Kowa, Vanguard, Opticron, others? Nikon M7 is a very well liked and proven design in its price range.

We have seen binocular brands come and go. Representatives posting all the time here on BF then with the blink of an eye, gone. Mostly due to product quality, management, and customer services/repairs. Once profit is gone, they are gone.

 

[Gijs van Ginkel]

Sharkbait,
In addition of my previous post hereby some numbers to compare (you can find the full test on the WEB-site of House of Outdoor):
GPO Passion ED 8x32: weight 520 g, eyerelief 13 mm, FOV 139m/1000m, close focus 1,7 m, light transmission500nm=88%, 90,2% at 550 nm, very good handling comfort, good color reproducion, focussing speed 1,2 rev for close focus to infinity, waterproof. Price 380 euros
Gijs van Ginkel

 

[Patudo]

@Sharkbait - if you can see the National Stadium you must be in the Kallang area. I've never birded that area myself, but the Kallang basin is part of the same waterway as Marina Bay and it should be possible to see much the same things. I plan to give it a try next time I'm there. You're welcome to try my binoculars if our schedules coincide. On the subject of glasses, I wear them myself, but have never tried bifocal or multifocal glasses. My feeling is that they may be fine for everyday use, but for birding I'd be tempted to get a pair made to see well at distance. Maybe one of our older more senior members might be able to offer some useful advice.

One of the folks here (Dipperdapper) keeps his unsealed porro prism binoculars in a sealed box with desiccant. This seems to have worked fine, but I would still be reluctant to use that type of binocular in the tropics. I guess there is no getting away from the fact that the tropical climate is very harsh on binoculars: I've read that during the Pacific War brand new naval binoculars used by troops deployed in eg. the Solomons developed fungus so quickly that they needed cleaning every few months. Even in the UK, external focus binoculars (most porros) can develop issues with hazing and sometimes fungus over time - but when/if it happens, there are still some technicians that can work on binoculars here. If you have to send your binoculars abroad for service it becomes more complicated and costly.

It's always tempting to get the binocular with the best optical performance within your price range, but in a place like Singapore, other factors need to be given some thought. You definitely don't need outstanding binoculars to enjoy birding. There's a lot to be said for binoculars like the Nikon M7 mentioned in chill6x6's post above, which will give good service and should be adequately supported if issues happen (worth checking this before you make the purchase). If your taste in optics evolves such that you require better optical performance and desire superior mechanical finesse, you can go (much) deeper down the rabbit hole.


@chill - but binocular brands/manufacturers coming and going is by no means a new thing; it's happened many times over the decades, including with European and American actual manufacturers (Hartmann, Busch, Huet, Bausch & Lomb) as well as American rebranders of products from the Orient. In your list of binocular brands, GPO, Vortex, Vanguard, Opticron are essentially rebranders. These brands are doing much the same as Bushnell and Swift did in the sixties. You're not going to get support from the current Swift or Bushnell companies for their models from the 60s or 70s. Even Zeiss, if I remember rightly, doesn't work on binoculars of that vintage (except maybe Dialyts and the 7x50 marine).

I can easily see (for instance) Opticron offering the S.R.B.C. at some point, just like they offer a version of the Kamakura product sold in the U.S. as the Tract Toric. It'll be more expensive than ordering from the PRC direct, but you'll be paying for better backup in the event something happens.

 

[dries1]

Sharkbait,

It sounds like you have a good plan, when you go to Germany to check out the brands you are curious about, Nikon, GPO etc. Just don't let these long posts/(lectures) regarding binocular history here get in your way. Have a safe trip.

 

[lisamerlot]

I could not agree MORE! Too many good binoculars with a good track record to potentially waste your time and money on an unproven binocular brand. Stick with GPO, Vortex, Nikon, Kowa, Vanguard, Opticron, others? Nikon M7 is a very well liked and proven design in its price range.

We have seen binocular brands come and go. Representatives posting all the time here on BF then with the blink of an eye, gone. Mostly due to product quality, management, and customer services/repairs. Once profit is gone, they are gone.

I don't have binoculars. As a starter what brand or model would you recommend?

 

[chill6x6]

I don't have binoculars. As a starter what brand or model would you recommend?

Hi,

So to start out I'd probably get a Nikon, Opticron, GPO, or Vortex that my budget would allow. There's really nothing "wrong" with any of those. Since yth OP mentioned a $500 budget, I'd probably go the Nikon M7/GPO Passion ED 8X42 route. Whichever one you like the most. It's as simple as that. One of the Vortex or Opticron models would be fine too. Don't over complicate the process. Then go use that binocular a while. Don't read of things that are "wrong" with said binocular here on BF. Just go use it. Appreciate what the binocular does well. Both of those I recommended ARE good binoculars. Really they are good enough to never need another. I promise you, the binocular buying process isn't as deep as some would lead you to believe.

 

[lisamerlot]

Hi,

So to start out I'd probably get a Nikon, Opticron, GPO, or Vortex that my budget would allow. There's really nothing "wrong" with any of those. Since you mentioned a $500 budget, I'd probably go the Nikon M7/GPO Passion ED 8X42 route. Whichever one you like the most. It's as simple as that. One of the Vortex or Opticron models would be fine too. Don't over complicate the process. Then go use that binocular a while. Don't read of things that are "wrong" with said binocular here on BF. Just go use it. Appreciate what the binocular does well. Both of those I recommended ARE good binoculars. Really they are good enough to never need another. I promise you, the binocular buying process isn't as deep as some would lead you to believe.

Thank you chill I'll take a look at the Nikon.

Lisa