-
Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.
Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
Gloves off for the ultimate Birdwatcher vs Twitcher Debate! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Jasonbirder
- Start date
Michael Frankis
conehead
Enjoyed Al's wind-up - sorry, its a bit too obviously a wind-up . . . 'specially when a look at Al's other recent posts reveals he's just bought the latest "special high-speed twitching gear..." 
Michael
Michael
Jasonbirder
Jason-occasional-twitcher
OK i`ll retreat into my shell now for missing Al`s post as an obvious wind up!
Sorry for being controversial....but I started the thread (as the title suggests) with my tongue firmly in cheek.
But surely given the number of times people post messages decrying the behavior of "twitchers" someone could have had a pop here!!!
Sorry for being controversial....but I started the thread (as the title suggests) with my tongue firmly in cheek.
But surely given the number of times people post messages decrying the behavior of "twitchers" someone could have had a pop here!!!
andythomas
Well-known member
More rules for birdwatchers
Thanks to Colin and Al for their endorsement of rules 4 and 5.
They've reminded me of two more valuable rules.
6. If you must keep a list, make sure it's in the right order. The correct order for UK birdwatchers is Starling, House Sparrow, Blue Tit, Blackbird, Chaffinch, Greenfinch, Collared Dove, Great Tit, Woodpigeon, Robin etc. Only a twitcher would see a Pectoral Sandpiper before a Hawfinch, or a Yellow-browed Warbler before a Chough. A full list can be found in the forthcoming book "Birds In the Right Order - How to get a Lifelist of 100 in less than 25 Years".
7. If you see a bird you don't recognise, make no effort whatsoever to identify it. Ignore it, walk away and erase it from your memory. Don't get Collins out of your pocket to check the ID. In all probability the bird will be rare one, and you will be instantly transported to a twitch of your own making, guaranteeing a place in the fires of hell for eternity.
Michael, how can you compare ornithologists to professional athletes. Don't you realise they're just a bunch of overpaid slackers on performance-enhancing drugs? And as for the athletes...
Thanks to Colin and Al for their endorsement of rules 4 and 5.
They've reminded me of two more valuable rules.
6. If you must keep a list, make sure it's in the right order. The correct order for UK birdwatchers is Starling, House Sparrow, Blue Tit, Blackbird, Chaffinch, Greenfinch, Collared Dove, Great Tit, Woodpigeon, Robin etc. Only a twitcher would see a Pectoral Sandpiper before a Hawfinch, or a Yellow-browed Warbler before a Chough. A full list can be found in the forthcoming book "Birds In the Right Order - How to get a Lifelist of 100 in less than 25 Years".
7. If you see a bird you don't recognise, make no effort whatsoever to identify it. Ignore it, walk away and erase it from your memory. Don't get Collins out of your pocket to check the ID. In all probability the bird will be rare one, and you will be instantly transported to a twitch of your own making, guaranteeing a place in the fires of hell for eternity.
Michael, how can you compare ornithologists to professional athletes. Don't you realise they're just a bunch of overpaid slackers on performance-enhancing drugs? And as for the athletes...
Andy - I'm with you all the way on the seeing things in the right order doctrine, although on the east coast I would say that a Chough would generate far more evil twitchery than a YB Warbler. Having said that YB Warblers are so full of the exotic promise of foriegn climes that perhaps seeing them too early in one's career is not entirely wholesome.
Spar - I think there may be a difference between nest sites and vagrants in that vagrants usually only hang around for a short time whereas rare breeders (although Peregrines aren't all that rare these days) tend to come back to the same place for many years, including after the RSPB circus has moved on to another town. A site holding a vagrant is only likely to be disturbed in the very short term, whereas nesting species are more of a long term concern.
Spar - I think there may be a difference between nest sites and vagrants in that vagrants usually only hang around for a short time whereas rare breeders (although Peregrines aren't all that rare these days) tend to come back to the same place for many years, including after the RSPB circus has moved on to another town. A site holding a vagrant is only likely to be disturbed in the very short term, whereas nesting species are more of a long term concern.
christineredgate
Winner of the Copeland Wildlife Photographer of th
.Jasonbirder said:
Jason.I think you are talking a load of c---.Yes some people do study and enjoy actually watching the habits and antics of birds.judging by your comments re you are glad the discussion is "heating up".just what are you hoping to achieve..
Colin was on the right track when he was comparing a group within a group.No offence ,Colin,I'm broadminded ,also proud to belong to the biking fraternity.at least they stick together,good buddies.also to return to Birdman's comment,re orthinologists,does an orthonologist ever actually need to birdwatch as such.he can ,can he not do all his surveys and research whatever re books,pc etc,,he never actually needs to sit and watch a live bird.
Christine.
Good point on ornithologists Christine. One thing that's always put me off being some sort of biologist (and I've nothing against them as such) is that most seem to spend their time entering data onto the computer rather than outdoors looking at birds. Many seem to actually lack basic field skills and even if they had them once they seem to more-or-less give up birding when 'studying' birds become their job. I'm generalising of course, but that has often been my experience of professional ornithologists. Twitching seems quite virtuous in comparison - at least it gets people out in the fresh air.
Swift
Well-known member
I doubt many people are really bothered if you twitch or not , who cares?? Twitchers should stop getting on their high horses trying to defend the actions of the idiots, and birders should do likewise, there are people who flush ,disturb birds trample habitat etc on all sides of our hobby. As for supression if that is what you want to do then do it nobody is forced to share a sighting , strewth talk about mountains out of molehills.
Michael Frankis
conehead
Hi Christine & Fifey,
I'd disagree strongly about pro ornithologists not being good in the field - a lot of their work is actually very arduous, and sometimes, downright dangerous - take a look at this sit vac recently posted on the BOU forum:
I'd disagree strongly about pro ornithologists not being good in the field - a lot of their work is actually very arduous, and sometimes, downright dangerous - take a look at this sit vac recently posted on the BOU forum:
Jasonbirder
Jason-occasional-twitcher
Christine, you miss my point when I say the birders don`t study birds, I mean in the scientific/academic sense. All birders (I hope) study them in the sense of watching them, learning their habits, their behaviour, their calls etc....but purely for their own enjoyment.
What was I trying to acheive...it was all fairly light hearted, but hopefully people can realise we all enjoy birds...no-one is any better than anyone else and perhaps, just perhaps their should be a bit more unity and a little less of a rush towards the moral high ground by some.
At the end of the day we`re watching birds not saving the world...its not very serious stuff by the standards of things that happen every day!
What was I trying to acheive...it was all fairly light hearted, but hopefully people can realise we all enjoy birds...no-one is any better than anyone else and perhaps, just perhaps their should be a bit more unity and a little less of a rush towards the moral high ground by some.
At the end of the day we`re watching birds not saving the world...its not very serious stuff by the standards of things that happen every day!
Last edited:
Edward woodwood
Member
Lots of us have travelled to see birds and if you call travelling overseas to see birds I guess that makes world birders the ultimate 'twitchers'?.
I think the difference is probably in the keeping of lists. Twitchers seem to obsessively keep them and are very keen to add to the list. I used to twitch a fair bit but found that travelling got it out of my system and I can now go out at the weekend and not get caught up in the competitive aspect about what is and isn't countable - the decisions of which are sometimes faintly ( and sometimes quite fully) ludicrous. It's not such a thing to go to Fair Isle and see a rubythroat at xxx pounds if you've got it on yer world list and you saw it well in nice surroundings.
Still, twitching is the breeding ground for tomorrows expert birders, artists etc and younger folk (those I know at any rate) do seem to branch out into other areas of birding.
So I reckon it's harmless fun if we see it for what it is and enjoy the birds and not the size of our lists if we have one. Get rid of your lists - it's like getting rid of your watch - life is much more fun and a lot cheaper too.
Or even better, spend your xxx pounds and go and see lots of Rubythroats mmm...mmmm! Nice
I think the difference is probably in the keeping of lists. Twitchers seem to obsessively keep them and are very keen to add to the list. I used to twitch a fair bit but found that travelling got it out of my system and I can now go out at the weekend and not get caught up in the competitive aspect about what is and isn't countable - the decisions of which are sometimes faintly ( and sometimes quite fully) ludicrous. It's not such a thing to go to Fair Isle and see a rubythroat at xxx pounds if you've got it on yer world list and you saw it well in nice surroundings.
Still, twitching is the breeding ground for tomorrows expert birders, artists etc and younger folk (those I know at any rate) do seem to branch out into other areas of birding.
So I reckon it's harmless fun if we see it for what it is and enjoy the birds and not the size of our lists if we have one. Get rid of your lists - it's like getting rid of your watch - life is much more fun and a lot cheaper too.
Or even better, spend your xxx pounds and go and see lots of Rubythroats mmm...mmmm! Nice
birdman
Орнитол&
Hmmm... I personally don't think listing and twitching go hand in hand.
I think you can actively twitch, without keeping a list (perhaps rare?), and I certaily keep a list and hardly twitch at all.
Your radical "get rid of your list" suggestion... whoa there... that's tantamount to an ectomy!!! Don't think I could survive!!!
Mind you, I don't wear a watch.
(Mind you, I do have the clock displayed on the PC screen!)
I think you can actively twitch, without keeping a list (perhaps rare?), and I certaily keep a list and hardly twitch at all.
Your radical "get rid of your list" suggestion... whoa there... that's tantamount to an ectomy!!! Don't think I could survive!!!
Mind you, I don't wear a watch.
(Mind you, I do have the clock displayed on the PC screen!)
Edward woodwood
Member
I give up folks!
there aren't enough words in the English language to cope with the apparent subdivisions of birders - sorry twitchers/listers
more splits than the Yellow Wag complex!!!!!
:brains:
there aren't enough words in the English language to cope with the apparent subdivisions of birders - sorry twitchers/listers
more splits than the Yellow Wag complex!!!!!
:brains:
christineredgate
Winner of the Copeland Wildlife Photographer of th
Michael,I was not comments on the habits of orthinologists,I am not conversant with their field of study,it was just that Jason was ,or so it seemed ,to be trying to define the differences ,if any between birdwatcher,twitcher and then Birdman brought in orthinologists.So all I was trying to point out was that research these days can be done soley from a desk ,not that any orthinologist worth his salt would do that,but only an actual birdwatcher will go outside with his bins..
Incidentally out of curiosity why should one wish to keep a list .I can remember all the birds I have seen.Not a lot I must admit.But I would never forget having seen a new bird,therefore would not need to write down everytime I found a different one.
Christine.
But memory is so bad must have the weekly supermarket list!!
Incidentally out of curiosity why should one wish to keep a list .I can remember all the birds I have seen.Not a lot I must admit.But I would never forget having seen a new bird,therefore would not need to write down everytime I found a different one.
Christine.
But memory is so bad must have the weekly supermarket list!!
Hi Michael,
Think I was probably trying to start a bit of a debate earlier on with my comments on professional ornithologists (don't know if I was successful). I think this covers a pretty broad spectrum of activities so as I say I was generalising. A lot of ornithology (and biology in general) does seem to be very desk based these days though and I'm not sure that's always a good thing. It's interesting to note that subjects like ecology seem fairly popular at university these days despite the fact that, as we've noted on another thread, there are very few young birdwatchers around. All I would say is those young people are the professional ornithologists of the future. I wonder how many takers a job like that one in New Guinea will have in the future.
Think I was probably trying to start a bit of a debate earlier on with my comments on professional ornithologists (don't know if I was successful). I think this covers a pretty broad spectrum of activities so as I say I was generalising. A lot of ornithology (and biology in general) does seem to be very desk based these days though and I'm not sure that's always a good thing. It's interesting to note that subjects like ecology seem fairly popular at university these days despite the fact that, as we've noted on another thread, there are very few young birdwatchers around. All I would say is those young people are the professional ornithologists of the future. I wonder how many takers a job like that one in New Guinea will have in the future.
My ten-penn'orth
I have been in the middle of a major twitch - my friend and I were the first to identify the Houbara Bustard which turned up in Suffolk in 1962. Next thing we know is we are surrounded by what can only be called a band of thugs jostling for position to get a good photo, including one very well known and respected bird photographer, though I would exclude him totally from the 'thuggery brigade'.
The farmer's field which was I think a field of mustard just sprouting was trampled, costing him money. Our little road was completely blocked with cars, and I was got out of bed at 07:00 on a Sunday morning because someone in the village knew I was 'birdwatcher' when one family of twitchers asked.
More recently we had a Black and White Warbler turn up in North Norfolk. Again the farmer's crop was all but destroyed for a good distance from the gate. Needless to say the farmer was not pleased. Remember, these are the very people we should be helping to assist our dwindling birdlife.
There are many similar stories of course. This is bad press for the non-twitcher and it gives us all a bad name. Thoughtless behaviour just to get a tick in the book!
No, I'm sorry, I do not twitch. If I saw a Great Auk waddle across my garden I would not tell anyone for fear of my garden being destroyed by the Telescope Brigade.
There - that feels better. Now, try to convince me otherwise!
Mike
I have been in the middle of a major twitch - my friend and I were the first to identify the Houbara Bustard which turned up in Suffolk in 1962. Next thing we know is we are surrounded by what can only be called a band of thugs jostling for position to get a good photo, including one very well known and respected bird photographer, though I would exclude him totally from the 'thuggery brigade'.
The farmer's field which was I think a field of mustard just sprouting was trampled, costing him money. Our little road was completely blocked with cars, and I was got out of bed at 07:00 on a Sunday morning because someone in the village knew I was 'birdwatcher' when one family of twitchers asked.
More recently we had a Black and White Warbler turn up in North Norfolk. Again the farmer's crop was all but destroyed for a good distance from the gate. Needless to say the farmer was not pleased. Remember, these are the very people we should be helping to assist our dwindling birdlife.
There are many similar stories of course. This is bad press for the non-twitcher and it gives us all a bad name. Thoughtless behaviour just to get a tick in the book!
No, I'm sorry, I do not twitch. If I saw a Great Auk waddle across my garden I would not tell anyone for fear of my garden being destroyed by the Telescope Brigade.
There - that feels better. Now, try to convince me otherwise!
Mike
