Eyebrowed Thrush in Norolk (1 Viewer)

[Johann Sebastian Bach]

Garry,

I have no problem with LGRE - I've seen his helpful side on several occasions. My problem was with a very patronising response from you:

"Peter, come and see when you've seen 506 (or whatever 200th highest lister has got at the time)species and I can congratulate your effort."

I drew the connection with Lee when you added:

"But I will need to know your real name, hope that doesn't cause you a problem."

Lee has frequently expressed his irritation with pseudonyms: for me, it's inconsequential whether I know an individual by name or by monicker.

I can well understand you not liking the nastiness which is aimed at you - but comments similar to the first one I quote here won't endear you to the majority.

Peter

 

[Mark Batten]

Pete,

I'm not LGRE and I never will be LGRE. I like the guys company and I see him helping lots of people out whilst birding and with his informative website. Why do people dislike our relationship? We're both keen in seeing nice birds and we live within 40 miles of each other.

Some people don't like him and I expect they've got good reasons for that. But probably due to my friendship with LGRE and the recent telly appearance, I now get flack.

Most flack I get come from pseudonym users on Birdforum and people that I think are jealous of me.

I am my own person at the end of the day, I make my own decisions and I am certainly not in competition with any other birder/twitcher. The premiership name is a bit of harmless fun. It was never mean't to upset anyone.

Many people see lots of birds in Britain and nothing is ever said about them. But if I see a bird, I will find my name mentioned on various websites/birdforum etc. I don't mind being menitioned, but I don't like all the unnecessary nastiness aimed at me.

Garry

Gary. I agree that some of the abuse directed at you is neither funny nor appropriate.

That said Gary, You do seek a degree of fame and fortune in the birding community, which will always leave you open to flak from some circles. Further, your associations with Mr LEGO do you little favours, as you are seen (perhaps unfairly) as his sidekick and spokeman, when like at present, he is unable to answer back!!

Gary, it is unfortunte that much of the birding scene is unfortunately bitchy and elitist at both a national and a local level. The elitest stuff is perhaps just part of the human condition? If you choose to put your opinions at the top of the ladder, it is not unrealistic to expect someone to knock you down - that is just the way it is?

In Norfolk, the county with more active birders than anywhere else in the uk, the scene is broken up into interest groups largly based on locality, status and reputation! There is a great deal of bitching between the individuals concerned, with the validility of historical or current records being questioned - for example the Rock Sparrow at Cley. One of the individuals responsible for doing the bitching over this record was not even born when this record was being assessed!!

In all honesty Gary, do you really expect groups or adults to behave in a reasonable and fair minded way?Adults are only children inside grown up bodies. Do you really expect behaviour based apon reason, logic and fact? Probably not!

 

[Idle Valley Birder]

<snip> Have you thought that perhaps the person not seeing the dove -couldn't see it as it was in the wrong part of their vision at the time to see it so all they were seeing was finches. Not everyone has 20:20 vision .... Just a thought.

Sadly not the case Joan. The owner of the house let us stand in his garden only 50 yards away. The birds were all spread out along the ridge tiles, as if on a cloths line as the guy arrived. Not surprised you asked, I couldn't believe his comment either.

As the man stood next to us, the bird was on view but instead of taking a quick look through his bins, he tried to put his scope up to get a better view and the bird flew off. You couldn't make it up.......

 

[Farnboro John]

Of course I've heard of Mr Johns, but is he any better than some poor sod who can't afford to jet off at a minute's notice to Fair Isle or where ever a bird turns up? I mean the average joe with maybe a British list of only 350 (not me, my British list is mid 400s). Tell me why they are such great people. Money and time these people have, and maybe don't even know a lot about the bird they are looking at (and forget the fact that the bird is as common as muck in its home range and they could see some other fantastic species too if they visited the relevant country). They may as well start ticking Eddie Stobart lorries or collecting the labels on bananas (it happens!).

Perry, you are missing the point: I'm not saying he is any better (or me for that matter, I have a sizeable list but a limited bank balance which is why its taken me so long to get there, and I would not describe my ability as more than a journeyman birder) but some of your posts suggest you think a big list automatically makes you a bad person. In view of your own list I'm guessing that isn't correct. The trouble with the forum is I can't see the whites of your eyes when you say stuff, and nuance and intonation don't make it to the page.

In the last few days I have observed on several threads a tendency of posters to trumpet the perfection of their own way of birding in rather messianic fashion (e.g. how dare someone use a camera's maximum shot rate in a hide, and are they just showing off: answers, because it sometimes gets you that exact moment rather than the one before or the one after, and no, just pursuing excellence).

This is why a suggestion of increased tolerance of others birding habits tends to permeate my posts (and I know I can rant with the best of them, the difficulty sometimes is not to!)

See you in the field sometime.

John

 

[Steve Babbs]

On a similar theme to John, sometimes we forget it is a hobby. It's done for enjoyment. If you enjoy twitching then fine; no need to justify it any other way.

The point has been made that most 'big-listers' actually spend very little time twitching; they've seen most things.

John said: 'I would not describe my ability as more than a journeyman birder' . What refreshing honesty. Some people get their kicks from being superb at identifying everything; some just want to have fun and enjoy seeing birds. Both approaches are fine. Most people are somewhere in the middle. I like to think I'm pretty good at identification, but I know that I'd be much better if I had all my holidays in the Western P or Asia and concentrated on birds that turn up here, rather than wasting time looking at exotic S American and African stuff, but the most important thing for me is to enjoy myself. In the same way if twitchers get their kicks from listing all the time then fine, and I have to admit having done a fair bit myself.

Returning to the big-listers, it's not just money - although I'd agree you need a fair amount to really compete these days - you have to be willing to make pretty big sacrifices in other areas of life.

 

[Xenospiza]

Are there many listers than don't put their list on the Dutch List rankings?

I think most active listers are on there, definitely the top ones. I have never heard anyone complain that the list is kept up-to-date for them (which must happen for some: there are a few deceased listers who get the odd posthumous tick). A few lists are contentious (I believe one top lister has strung Pallas's Grasshopper-Warbler), but that's no reason to start a fight...

 

[Perry Smale]

Perry, you are missing the point: I'm not saying he is any better (or me for that matter, I have a sizeable list but a limited bank balance which is why its taken me so long to get there, and I would not describe my ability as more than a journeyman birder) but some of your posts suggest you think a big list automatically makes you a bad person. In view of your own list I'm guessing that isn't correct. The trouble with the forum is I can't see the whites of your eyes when you say stuff, and nuance and intonation don't make it to the page.

In the last few days I have observed on several threads a tendency of posters to trumpet the perfection of their own way of birding in rather messianic fashion (e.g. how dare someone use a camera's maximum shot rate in a hide, and are they just showing off: answers, because it sometimes gets you that exact moment rather than the one before or the one after, and no, just pursuing excellence).

This is why a suggestion of increased tolerance of others birding habits tends to permeate my posts (and I know I can rant with the best of them, the difficulty sometimes is not to!)

See you in the field sometime.

John

But there's the constant feeling that the big listers are looking down their noses at the lower listers and it's so offputting.

 

[Ashley beolens]

I've never felt looked down upon by the top listers (even when I did twitch).

 

[Farnboro John]

But there's the constant feeling that the big listers are looking down their noses at the lower listers and it's so offputting.

I've never felt it myself. But if it is the case with some of them - and I'm not saying it is - and you let it get to you, then you are playing their game and letting them win.

Chill a bit and enjoy your birding in your own way, that's my advice.

John

 

[birdboybowley]

I've never felt looked down upon by the top listers (even when I did twitch).

I have...but only by the ones that are taller than me.....

 

[Mark Batten]

Are there many listers than don't put their list on the Dutch List rankings?
In Britain BUBO is I suppose similar to the Dutch Listing website, but it has lots of big listers missing.

If the 800 British Listers on BUBO also visited Ireland for rarities, we might get more people adding their list on the British & Irish section (last time I looked it only had 130 lists). But at the moment the biggest listers publish only under Britain & Ireland section and generally ignore the Britain only section.

Gary your posts sound more like your mentor each day! Perhaps you are indentical twins with indentical computers and login ids?

 

[Farnboro John]

Gary your posts sound more like your mentor each day! Perhaps you are indentical twins with indentical computers and login ids?

Different diets though methinks.

John

 

[Bowland Birders]

... I now get flack.

Most flack I get come from pseudonym users on Birdforum and people that I think are jealous of me.

... I don't like all the unnecessary nastiness aimed at me.

Garry

Hi Garry, I doubt anyone is jealous of you but some people are just plain nasty and take the insults too far. Grow a thicker skin and ignore them. Br, Mike

 

[Steve Webb]

I was thinking about taking on the Life List rankings if LGRE gave it up, but I would only be prepared to do if for the Top 200 listers.

Garry, Quite a number of people do not want to be on a published list which bears little relationship to reality. If people want their list to be public they can put it on http://www.bubo.org/

Peter, come and see when you've seen 506 (or whatever 200th highest lister has got at the time)species and I can congratulate your effort. But I will need to know your real name, hope that doesn't cause you a problem.

I agree with Johann Sebastian Bach you are sounding more and more like LGRE each day. We do not need yet another policeman where people are spied on and told what they have seen and not seen. Cheers, Steve

 

[Garry Bagnell]

Steve,

I make one statement on Birdforum and then spend the next week, explaining and justifying every word. Don't see many others doing that.

BUBO is a good website and I have put my Sussex Life list and it now containls my British & Irish List.

I'm nothing like LGRE, I'm sure most people that know me can vouch for that. I just want to go out and see some birds and stay out of the politics.

I don't want to take sides between you and LGRE. Life too short to keep fighting about who's seen what, I don't care believe me.

Cheers

Garry

 

[Mark Batten]

Gary. I think in these circumstances Gary and lee are the same person!!

 

[bernie b]

Steve,

I make one statement on Birdforum and then spend the next week, explaining and justifying every word. Don't see many others doing that.

BUBO is a good website and I have put my Sussex Life list and it now containls my British & Irish List.

I'm nothing like LGRE, I'm sure most people that know me can vouch for that. I just want to go out and see some birds and stay out of the politics.

I don't want to take sides between you and LGRE. Life too short to keep fighting about who's seen what, I don't care believe me.

Cheers

Garry

Hi Garry
you counted how many people went to Muck(just like Lee),why if you don't care,are you his clone,I hope not :-O

 

[Garry Bagnell]

Hi Garry
you counted how many people went to Muck(just like Lee),why if you don't care,are you his clone,I hope not :-O

I'm interested in stats (obsessed about stats is more accurate) Bernie.
You should see the Darts stats I manage at at work, I'm well known for it.

 

[turkish van]

I'm nothing like LGRE, I'm sure most people that know me can vouch for that. I just want to go out and see some birds and stay out of the politics.

I say this as a complete outsider who only reads some of these threads thanks to a mild interest in twitcher 'quirkiness'

Surely there is only one definite way to get yourself into 'the politics', and that is to so regularly associate yourself with Lee Evans? Nevermind going a leap further and taking the helm of the UK400 stuff. I fear that will never lead you to the quiet life you seem to want?

 

[Garry Bagnell]

Hi Garry, I doubt anyone is jealous of you but some people are just plain nasty and take the insults too far. Grow a thicker skin and ignore them. Br, Mike

I do need to ignore people for sure, but I think there is an element of truth in the Jealousy angle. So many people have mentioned it to me.